Aussie Finch Forum

I am on my hobby horse again. When should people try the more difficult species?
I think perhaps they need to pass some prerequisite first.
Be successful with Cordons before buying Blue Caps. Win with Redheads and Diamonds etc before considering Red Eared Firetails. Breed Bulbuls before going onto Pekin Robins. Try Melbas and Auroras before going for Wrens.Etc etc etc.............
The reason I am passionate about this is the failures simply reduce the birds/gene pool we have to play with.
Please get the runs on the board before wasting what is left.

I agree 100 % , I did my hard yards with cubans and cordons to name a few before I got my chance at wrens. been trying to master the diamond firetail for years just so I can down the track obtain some red eared firetails and not expecting that one for atleats another 5 years.
Some of my earlier sotbills were given to me as they were geriatrics, oh and boy I made a few mistakes with a few younger birds from stupidty( well thats what I call it ) just unlucky at the time. I learnt alot from it as I tried to have my hands in to many cookie jars but now I have had a bit more guidance and things look very promissing, I just had to curb the wants as I call it....pete

I agree entirely in building up experience before moving on to harder species. I started off with a pair of painted firetails gifted to me as a youngster of 8, and have since worked my way up to some more difficult species. Getting a firm grasp on the basics has allowed my husbandry, health and feeding habits to get better and better, and still improving of course. Also, having kept the more common species, I've cut my teeth and learnt the do's and don'ts of the hobby, and learnt to observe from a distance the birds behaviours, so I now know when to step in, when a bird needs help etc etc.
Now at 22, I have a range of species in mixed collections, but no aviaries suitable for single pairs, so have been limited to suitably placid birds, but this again has improved my husbandry and knowledge, and taught me that research and planning are essential!! I allow myself one "challenge" species, birds that I find interesting, and a step up from my previous "challenge". I never feel that I have mastered breeding any species, but do feel confident to move up to another species that will keep my interest keen, and sometimes my wits at there ends!!! I previously struggled to breed diamonds, but eventually persistence has paid off and I have 3 pairs breeding in some way, shape or form now (some with young, some nesting for the first time). My new challenge are the pictorellas, of which I have 6 young, unrelated birds (3 pairs) in a colony situation. I keep moving up in this fashion, and my next planned challenges are tri-coloured PF's and after that some crimsons or maybe some auroras. After them, maybe some wrens, but that will only be when I have my own place and aviaries that I can dedicate solely to them.
Step up after step up, birds pay for themselves on the whole (breed more than I lose/buy by a long margin) and an honest and harsh debate over whether or not I am ready to move on to a more challenging bird.

P.S. Pete, got another couple of young diamonds, unrelated to the ones I sold you last time, ready when you want them

This is a great thread that i feel we need to stick.

As someone who has "taken the plunge" recently, you guys are over simplifying the situation and perhaps even inducing a bit of snobbery. I have had seed eaters for 35+ years, budgies, parrots, finches. All Australian, no interest whatsoever in the foreign stuff. I'm not sure I've even ever seen an Aurora or Melba (unless they have different names around here ). Sure, I haven't always had the breeding success I wanted - and sometimes far more than I bargained for ie Zebbies - but in general I've had happy, healthy birds. Yep, things have gone sad at times and it has broken my heart but that's the nature of keeping animals. After all, we had a squillion swordtails and guppies curl up their fins when the kids were little too, to the point of me giving in and getting a guinea pig instead.

A while ago I decided that I wanted variety. I'd had all the finches i found attractive / interesting. Life circumstances meant that an aviary suitable for a variety of large parrots was out of the question. So, I looked at softbills. I spent time here and elsewhere researching on the internet. I read and re-read books. I consumed all the knowledge possible by direct contact with breeders in a short space of time. In short, the decision was made, crimson chats now and later, money wise, superb wrens. Unexpected circumstances, a looming birthday and a helpful breeder meant that I managed to obtain 1 pair of each, the chats arriving first.

5 weeks later the chats are furiously building their first nest at their new digs. They are fit and healthy and very well fed. They don't seem to have noticed I don't have bred any of those foreign birds already. They don't seem to mind the steady supply of cakes, crickets, woodies, gents (maggots to you lot ) and mealworms of all sizes. They love the hunt for the crickets I "hide" on the floor. They hop all around the bushes (in tubs, we can't have a planted aviary in our rental house) very carefully selected for them. Will they raise the young? I sure hope so and will do everything in my power to make it happen.

As for "common" vs "hard to keep", I reckon that's bullocks. Just because something is freely available doesn't make it any more difficult than other things which aren't everyone's cup of tea and so are hard to find. After all, redbrows are difficult to get in Vic just because they are on the licence so most people don't bother to keep them. Gouldian's drop off the perch at the drop of a hat given the right circumstances but they are freely available whereas redbrows are downright hardy, at least to keep if not breed and it seems they become easy if you have enough space, brush and pairs in the colony.

"I made a mistake", surely is a euphemism for "I've had birds die". Somehow though it's acceptable for you to use this to justify getting on a soapbox tall enough to look down on people who have trod a different path to yourselves. Don't judge others on your own experience or assume that your own tender years of age somehow provides insight greater than someone who has a different kind of experience, both in life and in birds that exceeds your total lifespan.

Sure, we've had our share of (attention seeking??) gung-ho young'uns on here. Likely to have some gung-ho oldies at different times too. In the main though, when it comes to those "rarer" birds, oops that should read "harder to keep birds", their price alone will restrict how many people bother with them. After all, it's not too hard to make budgies a hard species, ask any breeder who's had a rogue male go through the colony and kill just about anything that moves.

Off my own soapbox now .

Experience in any hobby is a accumulation of years and years of research, development, trial and error, self evaluation, peer review, economics and practicality.
Enthusiasm coupled with impatience of a well intentioned novice can be at the detriment of the hobby.
How often have you seen a NEW person on the scene start with the hard to breed or rare species of finch. Only to loose them all through unfortunate mishaps or accidents. This person then either starts again repeating unintentionally or not the same process again. This damage is multiplied if the person has a big bank account to fund the buying spree as the collector is under a false believe that money can buy experience coupled to illusions of grandeur in owning the rare species. Finally disillusioned with the whole negative outcome the NEW person disappears from the bird world as fast as they have arrived and the finch population is worse off from their new venture.
For example I have seen people starting off wanting to buy Blue mutation Gouldians with little to no experience in finch breeding prior. Only to find out the same people ask for help concerning basic husbandry requirements and techniques. They then wonder why their birds dont breed or can not keep them alive. Experience in finch breeding would highlight the fact that Blues for example are not for novices but normal Gouldians would be a better choice
We all were that NEW person at one time or another. Properly advised and groomed in finch breeding the NEW person then becomes the next generation of finchos. Instead of spending big on buying a couple of pairs of Blue Gouldians a person could buy 20 pairs of quality normal birds for around the same price and breed 100's of chicks in comparison to a handful of blues. This helps build the necessary experience to perpetuate to the rarer or hard to breed birds.

Unfortunately the advent of computers has seen a proliferation of misinformation available making instant experts out of anyone who type on a key board. I think that this could be contributing to the belief that most people can start at the top of the list because they think they are well prepared to breed these rare species.
Quality information is also readily available from recognised subject mater experts giving their life time of experience and knowledge to the community as a whole. Forums like AFF have greatly improved my knowledge on all things finches especially with the information freely supplied by some of the more experienced members.

I would like to make it clear that someone age does not give them more or less experience.

Well said and agreed entirely wagga, especially with

wagga wrote:I would like to make it clear that someone age does not give them more or less experience.

Yes yes yes good pros and cons however I rather think old man Murphy has a lot to do with ones success or failure .

In regards to those forum members who do take the plunge into the rarer birds I do not for one minute think they do so without huge amounts of research and thought .

On one hand life is about trial and error and on the other preparation makes perfect ... all I can say is thank goodness these birds do cost more money as it acts as a buffer between those who just want and those who's heart are in continuing the production of these birds.

Anyhoo I also kinda think lifes too short to follow other peoples rules so "go for it " ...you will never know unless you try AND again I state that the majority of people especially the AFFers would have the birds best interests at heart above all else.

I don't think there's any element of snobbery at all behind recommending beginners first cut their teeth on suitable well established species before diving uninitiated into rarer species with similar basic captive requirements. This is just commonsense from the aspect of not wasting rarer genetic material where they have far lower breeding prospects & in many cases wasting away their useful breeding life for little if any result and higher chances of mortality due to inexperience. Also significant is that making our mistakes and learning important avicultural lessons on suitable pre-cursor species (such as Cordons before Bluecaps) gives us the confidence, good avicultural habits and standard of care required to have reasonable prospect of success with the more challenging ones. When then "progressing" to a more difficult species after finding some consistent breeding success with the initial species, our routine then only requires some fine-tuning for very good prospects of a favourable outcome all round. Diving in the deep end for a non-swimmer can be very scary, costly and disheartening - not the way to encourage a long-term and rewarding interest in aviculture.

Experience is good. But knowing yourself is also important. I have been keeping and breeding - sometimes - finches since before Spanna was born too. But I have visited his setup, talked to him and bought birds off him. Age is not everything, dedication is and this young man has more of it than a lot of people and is a better finch breeder than me. So remember, listen to all, learn what you can and be realistic. About what you read, what you will and won't do and what is right for the birds. No Softbills for me, they don't deserve the fact that I can't give them what they need.
LML