Aussie Finch Forum

Neochmia temporalis loftyi....It is supposed to look like a cross between the 2? I think they call it Mcgilray Redbrow? I cant find any photos of it anywhere ...all the pics I have seen are the Lessor (N. temporalis minor) and the Eastern subspecies (N. temporalis temporalis) Thanks if you do

Hi Vette..Pic in R Kingstons new book.Page 318.I got 2 pair today.BTW its Macgillivrayi...
See ya at next meeting.
Chris

Vette..Just reading more..South Aust strain is Mt Lofti...mt lofti & kangaroo island SA....Macgillivrayi is from Claudie river in QLD.(near Lockhart River)
Chris

Mcgillvrayi in QLD have a bit of a dark past. Not so long ago, a number of keepers took part in a bulk purchase of Lesser red brows that turned out to be lesser x normals. Rather than treat them as first cross hybrids as would have been the honest thing to do, they proceeded to refer to them as Mcgillvrayi (the real thing is a multigenerational intergrades where the subspecies meet) so as to no "do their dough" on the deal. Soon after, Mcgillvrayi appeared on the QFS finch price list for the first time. It is a matter of buyer beware. The likelihood of real mcgillvrayi finding their way into private hands when white bellied bloods (of similar locality) vanish before our eyes seems dubious to me. It will be interesting to see if the subspecies is even considered valid in the big Grassfinches review.

I seen some sold at the QFS sale this year.They looked liked the eastern ones from memory.There is one or two photos in there being sold as Mcgillvrayi.

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gomer wrote:I seen some sold at the QFS sale this year.They looked liked the eastern ones from memory.There is one or two photos in there being sold as Mcgillvrayi.

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The pics in that post certainly wouldn't have me rushing for a bigger wallet. If you trust your seller then go for it but personally I could never buy one with any confidence.

Interesting comments from Danny as i have often wondered on the validity of the Mcgillvary subspecies. Ive read several articles stating that this subspecies starts at the same location as Lessers . ?? Kind of makes me think that its a bit dubiuos as far as seperate subspecies goes. i will try and get some pics of Loftyi as my aunty lives in ths Adelaide hills and has these guys tapping on her kitchen window in the mornings for a free feed.How much were these Loftyi when purchased ?

Hi Danny & Desert Birds.I would like your opinion on these..I am no expert & would like to know what these are.I was told McGilviary's.Guy I got them from says Lofty & lessers he has never had any luck with breeding.These breed very well according to him.They must as he had a lot of young ones from 5 breeding pair.
Hope pics are good enough.These are only young birds.Ring on left leg = Hen.(I hope.lol)
Regards Chris

Im not an expert either but they do look a bit different. They arent lessers ,loftyi and to me they appear to have that steel grey colouration which suggests they arent the normal east coast variety.I think the bird with the red leg ring is a cock bird and i would be interested to know if he ? has a black or grey vent. Garymc mentioned some time ago that he had seen Mcgillvary (spelling ?) so he may worth a pm and see what he thinks. Thanks for the pics, very interesting. If lessers and this subspecies are found not too far apart geographically its interesting that the Lessers have lost the Gold/yellow stripe acroos the back of the neck.

I personally think the whole McGillivrayi thing is a con. Not necessarily by current breeders who bought them in good faith but the checquered history Danny refers to is spot on from what I've seen in decades past. As Chris says the original Mcgillivrayi specimens collected in 1914 were from Claudie River which is actually at the northern end of the Lesser's range - nowhere near any intermediate zone. The original proposed subspecies of Mcgillvrayi by Gregory Matthews was based on the specimens owned by a bloke called McGillvray & these were very exagerated & vivid Lesser redbrow features NOT more intermediate features which specimens many hundreds of kilometres further south may or may not show. "McGillivrayi" was never proposed by any taxonomist for any intergrade specimens however it was enthusiastically (and incorrectly) latched onto by those who crossed the lesser & nominate subspecies in the late 1980s & early 1990s. An effective marketing tool for captive produced subspecies hybrids but entirely incorrect as an accurate description of the birds being sold on.