Aussie Finch Forum

I'm still thinking of get maybe a couple of pairs of gouldians sometime in the new year and have noticed everyone saying to stick to one head colour when buying them, just wondering why that is? Rather than breast colour or anything else, I'm thinking of getting just normals at this stage but what colours do normals include? obviously there are a few head colours that are normal what about breast colour? Is purple considered the only normal colour or are some of the other breast colours also "normal"?

Wow,
haven't you just opened a can of worms By my way of thinking the "normals" come in three head colours, red, black and orange with the breast colour being purple. Plain green backs, no white breasts, no pastels, yellows, blues. Just as they were in the wild. It is advised, by some quarters, that you try and stick to the same head colours in your pairings. Why that is, I dont know, but have read that some hens prefer the brighter red headed males. Same head colours seem OK but the results cant be depended upon as far as I am concerned as I have had same coloured pairs throw different coloured heads, breasts and even yellow and dilute backs. I suppose if you can be guaranteed of the EXACT heritage of the birds that is the risk we run because of the intensive breeding over the years. Anyhow, have a lash, they are certainly beautiful birds and pretty easy to look after and breed if you have good worming and diet regimes in place. Good luck.

Matcho

Red, Black and Yellow head are all normal. But only Purple chests are normal, as are only green back. However none are abnormal. Just mutations. There is a suggestion by people who have studied the interaction between the birds (Gouldian Society Googling will tell you more) that pairs who have the same head colour are happier. Personal observation leads me to believe that as Yellow is a modification of Red the birds cannot or donot see the 2 colours as different. I may be wrong but that's the way it seems to me.
LML

There is genetic incompatability between the different head colours. This will result in fewer young. Because the effect is more severe on female offspring, the hen skews the sex ratio of her young to minimise the losses. This results in predominantly male offspring amongst the smaller clutches.

At the STGF day, Sarah Pryke showed us results of her experiment in which she painted the heads of the Gouldians to see if this skewed sex ratio was a result of the genetic incompatability or maternal choice. The hens produced sex ratios according to the head colour they believed the cock was, and not according to the underlying genetics.

Well, that's the theory at least, and as I have never kept Gouldians, I would love to hear the experiences of those who've mated different head colours.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/2589683.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very interesting .

HI deb, i have mixed the head colors of my birds and find nothing wrong with it,ratio about 50-50 with the young being male and female,black and red heads do very well together in normals,in the mutations it is well to bred mixed head colors as this adds strengh to the birds ,there are a few breaders who bred pure goulds ,so it comes down to what you like best,see you gary.

Just a quick addition- it stresses the females to put her with a male of a different head colour. Because of the increased stress, she's likely to take longer to mate with the male and will usually produce fewer young.

Interesting Niki k,i have 2 aviaries that i put normals in ,mixed head colors mixed breast color, if this stresses the hens out,and i believe the hen picks the cock bird,why is it that they pick a different color ,also i have not noticed any sort of egg reduction,infertility or weak juveniles,i just dont see this stress in the breeding,seems to work for me thanks gary.

I can't say what's going on in your aviaries, I'm just going by what I've read in scientific journals. While females do usually choose the males, there is some evidence for males being choosy as well.

Excerpt from Pryke & Griffith 2007
"With respect to head colour, Gouldian finches pair positive assortatively; more pairs had birds with the same head colour than would be expected if pairing was random. Assortative pairing was observed both within wild and captive populations. When disassortative pairing occurred (21.1%), it was most common among black-headed females and red-headed males (23/29 disassortative pairs), and much less common between red-headed females and black-headed males (6/29 disassortative pairs)."

Excerpt from Pryke & Griffith 2008
"...postzygotic incompatibility significantly limits gene flow between the sympatric red and black color morphs of the Gouldian finch (Erythrura gouldiae). Using a balanced within-female experimental design, in which individuals were forced to breed in pure and mixed morph crosses, we found large inviability effects (>30%) in offspring resulting from genetically mixed genotypes...mortality in mixed morph genotypes was particularly severe (43.6%) for the heterogametic sex (daughters), which is consistent with Haldane's rule predicted for postzygotic incompatibilities between hybridizing species."

Excerpt from Griffith et al 2011
"Previous work on the polymorphic Gouldian finch, Erythrura gouldiae, has demonstrated that the genetically discrete red and black head-colour morphs are partially genetically incompatible with sons and daughters produced by mixed pairings suffering about 40 and 80 per cent higher mortality, respectively, than offspring produced by pairs of the same head-colour morph. This genetic incompatibility results in strong preferences by both males and females for partners of the same head colour as themselves...When pairs were allowed to form naturally in the aviaries, the females that paired with a male of the same head colour (i.e. paired assortatively) laid their first egg nearly a month earlier than those females that paired disassortatively...In the aviaries, where females chose their own partners (albeit under the constraints of diminishing male availability), females paired with incompatible males had significantly higher levels of circulating corticosterone at egg laying than those paired with compatible partners."

Note that corticosterone is the primary stress hormone in birds.

Can I just say and Im no expert ,and that the dynamics in the wild are totally different to that in captivity .
That dynamics can even be dramatically different from one aviary to the next , one pair of birds to the next .

What I saw on Catalyst demonstrated that same colour heads produce more offspring whereas garyh has proven it makes no difference .

So what does that mean to me ? That neither theory is conclusive and the particular birds , the particular aviary and the particular situation governs the success or failure of mixed head colours .

Just how I see it . Good to have an open mind on matters like this .