My Canaries

[finchbreeder]

"If putting dominant white to dominant white is fatal, does this mean that there is a high death rate in chicks or could death occur later on in the birds life?"
That is one of the things that is in dispute, but most seem to agree that the high chick death rate is more likely.
"A little off topic but the chances of a blue or white canary being Recessive White are close to zero in Australia. Some actually believe the trait to be extinct over here."
But unless a lot of test breeding is carried out, that is exactly what it is. An unsubstantiated belief.
So either the "fatal dominant gere" is more fairy story than fact, or the "no recessive whites in Austraia" is. Yes I believe it is the first, but again this is strictly my opinion.
Oh and if you want to breed any form of finch, including canarys, in an avairy. The ideal quantity is 1 pair or 3 pairs. 2 pairs is the worst, as the cocks fight most in 2 pair situations. That's why I avairy breed in 1s or 3s. But yes Cabinets are more sucessful, I just don't have that option, due to space constraints.
LML

[Red]

"A little off topic but the chances of a blue or white canary being Recessive White are close to zero in Australia. Some actually believe the trait to be extinct over here."

But unless a lot of test breeding is carried out, that is exactly what it is. An unsubstantiated belief.

My point was that they are very rare. Please note, I never said there were no Recessive Whites in Australia, I know someone who has them.

Your assumption seems to be that there is no way to visually tell a Dominant White from a Recessive White. This is not so. The whole reason why Recessive White is sought after by colour breeders is because it gives a pure white bird without any trace of yellow. Dominant White birds show a trace of yellow on their flight feathers. According to Geoff Walker's book, if you look even closely the skin of a Recessive White it is lilac not pink as in Dominant White.

But how do you tell dominant white from recessive white? Breed it with another white.

That is not a good test mating. All you will prove if a yellow chick turns up is that one of the parents is Dominant White (which one?). Or possibly both are Dominant White. Even if all the chicks are white you still haven't proved they are not Dominant White anyway.

One way to prove you have Recessive White is to breed two of your white's yellow offspring together and produce a white chick. For that matter any white bred from two yellow parents has to be Recessive White.

As I said before, Recessive White has a distinct phenotype. It is sought after by colour breeders and there are plenty of people looking for it. It really puzzles me when you imply that Recessive and Dominant White are hard to tell apart.

Regards

[Rox]

Thank you Red and Finchbreeder, this is very interesting.

"The whole reason why Recessive White is sought after by colour breeders is because it gives a pure white bird without any trace of yellow. Dominant White birds show a trace of yellow on their flight feathers. According to Geoff Walker's book, if you look even closely the skin of a Recessive White it is lilac not pink as in Dominant White."

Both parents are dominant white then, as they very clearly have a trace of yellow on their flight feathers. The same goes for the blue/grey youngster. I'm sure some will approve and others won't but I will keep the pair together for this season and see what happens because I am honestly extremely curious now. The pair are young and this is their first season. I also record everything, number of eggs laid, hatchlings, fledglings, etc, so I will soon see if there is a pattern forming (survival or death of chicks).

I understand canaries aren't meant to 'bond' and are more solitary birds but my 2 pairs definitely act and move around together like independant, happily married couples. Noted about having 1 or 3 pairs together is best. I think next season I will split the pairs up, as I am busy building another aviary.

"For that matter any white bred from two yellow parents has to be Recessive White"
I'm interested now to see if I will get a white chick from my yellow pair. Not that it will tell me which parent is what but purely for genetic interest sake

[finchbreeder]

" Please note, I never said there were no Recessive Whites in Australia,"
Forgive me if I gave the impression that I though you did, I was definately not implying that I thought you had said or implied this.
"The whole reason why Recessive White is sought after by colour breeders is because it gives a pure white bird without any trace of yellow. Dominant White birds show a trace of yellow on their flight feathers. According to Geoff Walker's book, if you look even closely the skin of a Recessive White it is lilac not pink as in Dominant White."
Ahh! Now I get it. I am not a colour breeder, so have not really gone into the genetics of colour in canarys to the degree that I have with other finches. And did not realize they were visually different to that degree. Had (obviously incorrectly) assumed that the difference was purely genetic, or very hard to see. Like in most finches where you get a dominant and recessive form of some mutation, and only test breeding gives the game away. Thanks for clarrifying that.
LML