Sprouting Clover seed

[Tiaris]

I've just tried sprouting some white clover from a bag of "clover seed Mix" (90% clover seed plus some barnyard grass) I bought at Gunnedah bird sale & its heaps different to any seed I've sprouted before. When soaking it is extremely absorbent & expands to roughly triple its original size & when strained off it sprouts in less than a day. I started of with roughly 60% finch mix & 40% clover mix to sprout & by the time it finished soaking & sprouting I have roughly twice as much sprouted clover as finch mix. First feed today so I'll report back with its uptake by the birds later but it looks good to me.

[BluJay]

Exciting, look forward to your next post.

[crazy cuban]

sounds like a good seed to sprout

[Tiaris]

Fed it for a couple of days now & the birds take it just as well as the sprouted millets.

[BluJay]

Thanks for the update, Tiaris, will have to have a go, back home. Usually, seeded clover, various kinds, for the pastured critters. Though the birds loved the clippings. When I purchased the seed sprouters, suggested by someone on the forum, I did get some alpha seeds, to sprout. What do you think?

[GregH]

I hope that the guy who sold it to you had tested it out and was satisfied that it didn't cause problems. As a legume clover seed would be high in protein but unfortunately one lot of proteins mimic sex hormones and are known to disrupt reproduction in mammals. I don't know if these phtyo-estrogens occur in the seed but they do in the plant and can cause reproductive problems with sheep grazing on them. Red clover extract are also used to ease menopausal problems in humans. What effects these phyto-estrogens have on birds is unknown so it might be an idea to ease up before you do some research. Rochester (2009) found that red clover with elevated phyto-estrogen levels had a negative impact on oviduct maturation in chickens but they fed the plant not the seed. A reference to inhibited quail reproduction when fed sub-clover seed comes from Stanford University. What seems to be a common theme is that stressed clover produces more phyto-estrogens than than unstressed so the levels may vary according to season and then you're playing Russian roulette with every batch you purchase. There and many more papers if you Google around.

Personally I'd go for the alfalfa (lucerne) seed as an alternative unless you want to do the research and prove there's no reproductive inhibition.

[BluJay]

Thanks for the information, GregH, will have sis make contact with the agriculture department, I know that there are 4 or 5, that were recomended by them, what comes to mind is the red and white. Alfalfa, (we nick name in our area, Alpha, as it is the number one) we grow on a twenty acre plot. The clover is in the area's that have to be kept under twelve inches in height. Sis is into honey bee's and has only done, clover, and apple blossom honey, by sitting up hives close to the orchard, and it has been suggested that we may want to try lavender, (planting close to alfalfa), but will have to see what it will do for the animals. This is very interesting, phtyoestrogens, in the clover. Have not paid much attention to that, but will now. Namely, I have been aware of it in sweet potatoe and soy products. Also the high, content of manganese in the soy products, and avoid the use of them. Again, thanks, will have to look into this. Don't want the animals overloaded with estrogens, phyto or not.
Will have to tell sis, to fight the amimals for the red clover, (as it is very sweet, she makes tea with it), so she can fight pms

[Myzomela]

Greg, you've echoed my concerns exactly.

Phytoestrogens also occur in soy products but heat treatment usually inactivates them.

The question that remains, as you stated, is whether the oestrogens are in the seed or the sprouts in those clover species affected.

Having said that I remember that the late Brian O'Gorman used to grow clovers ( 2 species but I can't remember which ones) and feed them to his Beautiful Firetails which he kept, bred and researched in the 1980's. His findings were published in Australian Aviculture, the publication of the Avicultural Society of Australia but don't ask me which issues. They do have an index so someone could probably source it if anyone is interested.

[Tiaris]

Its white clover seed. Not previously aware of that issue. If that is an issue with legume sprouts there is an awfully large quantity of sprouted mung beans and other legumes fed to a wide variety of birds & I know that red clover shoots & juvenile plants have been recommended by Mike Fidler as a sole source of greens for Gouldians such is there nutritional quality & many have followed his advice (as they do). Thanks very much for pointing that out. I'll keep feeding my white clover sprouts for now in the absence of any obvious problems.

[BluJay]

Spoke with Dr. Marshall (farm vet., back home), regarding the plantation of clovers on the farm and this issue, is he spewing!!!! Said that it is not overkill in feeding to the animals, cows, chickens, goats (whom seem to love the wild roses, more), that the so to speak "barn yard", sod mix, I replaced my kentucky blue grass with , with is not over run with it. I use a Agri-Fab, Mow & Vacum, on the back of the Kubota, to collect when various grasses are seeding, to feed to the birds and fowl. Am still interested in this subject.

Good to know about the soy, however, in rearing various animals, including non-human primates, it has been strictly advised not to use soy products, including all the soy infant milk replacers. Not only because of the estrogen, which to my understanding, The principal goitrogens in soybeans are the estrogenic plant hormones known as isoflavones. The antinutrients known as saponins in soy may also be goitrogens. Cooking and processing methods, using heat, pressure, and alkaline solutions, will neither deactivate nor remove isoflavones or saponins. Only solvent extraction can do that, as well as it high in manganese, (also turkey) and is attributed to poor brain development, and behavorial issues such as, ADD, ADHD, etc.., and many other reasons.
Still this is interesting.