Just an opinion.

[Weaver]

pdg,
We are already able to close ring our birds in Australia if we choose to. Most birds however are aviary bred and the majority of breeders are just not interested in doing this.
I close ring many of my finches for tracking purposes but generally don't bother with the cheaper birds in aviaries.

[pdg]

pdg,
We are already able to close ring our birds in Australia if we choose to. Most birds however are aviary bred and the majority of breeders are just not interested in doing this.
I close ring many of my finches for tracking purposes but generally don't bother with the cheaper birds in aviaries.

Interesting, Weaver! Happy to know they are out there. I thought there was something like those rings for budgies and zebras, but not for other birds.
Where do you buy those rings and do they have all the engravings I mentioned? Do they come in all sizes? I'd be very interested in using those rings. But I want to stress that a system like that cannot function unless it is a national or state system. Are those rings you mentioned national rings?

I realise that many breeders don't bother about it or that it is difficult to ring birds in larger aviaries; although native birds are bred in larger aviaries here in Belgium too and for them it is compulsory! Anyway, there are other features by which one can tell if birds are old or young(er); which were already mentioned in this topic. Like you do it would be a start: ring those that can be rung.

[Weaver]

They are available in all sizes, engraved with club or individuals initials. They are coloured for each year (orange for 2012) and can be purchased through the specialist societies or directly from the supplier.
Generally used by exhibitors for "bred by exhibitor" awards.

[E Orix]

When you say larger aviaries,how big,how planted and how accessable is the access to young birds to close ring them.
Over the years people have suggested that closed ringing could be good,here in Australia I can't see one good reason why there is a need to use this method on our non Australian species, the practicality of close ringing here in Aust. is not really worth the effort.
In Europe where total control and access to the breeding birds is 24/7 it can be implemented
The close ringing of Canaries and Budgies is successful here because of the breeding methods and easy access to the chicks.
I use a split metal ring etched with my details that is fitted using special ring plyers,difficult to remove and suits me

[pdg]

When you say larger aviaries,how big,how planted and how accessable is the access to young birds to close ring them.
Over the years people have suggested that closed ringing could be good,here in Australia I can't see one good reason why there is a need to use this method on our non Australian species, the practicality of close ringing here in Aust. is not really worth the effort.
In Europe where total control and access to the breeding birds is 24/7 it can be implemented
The close ringing of Canaries and Budgies is successful here because of the breeding methods and easy access to the chicks.
I use a split metal ring etched with my details that is fitted using special ring plyers,difficult to remove and suits me

Thanks for replying EOrix.

It could be done with non native birds for the same reasons: tracking the origin: breeder, age, ...etc. Closed ringing is only compulsory for native birds here in Belgium. I have already mentioned the reasons for ringing non native birds.

Aviaries here can be just as big and planted as the Australian aviaries I have seen. Although quite some native European birds are bred reasonably well in smaller aviaries and even cabinet cages. There are quite a few that do not breed in small aviaries and need a large well planted aviary. So, that is just the problem: the birds that have to be rung are the hardest to ring. The law says all the native birds must be rung. To give you an example: the Eurasian Linnet. I've bred them, but they aren't easy birds to breed! They've got something wild to them and still their young must be rung as well. It is the task of the breeders to obtain and breed birds that get used to nest inspection. It takes some work and stress (I can tell you!) but after a few years you end up with birds that are better used to it. No easy access 24/7 here for you! Also we use a kind of masking tube that is used to hide the colour of the ring. The idea is that the parents won't see the rings as droppings.

The problem with split metal rings here in Europe is that this way people can catch their birds out of the wild and ring them as if they had bred them theirselves. Until very recently they could even do that with closed rings which they one way or another widen. Now the closed rings are hardened.

I do understand that some birds build nests that are very difficult to inspect. I'm wondering if it would be possible to ring weaver bird young in the nest for instance - but I'm not an expert.

Cheers
Patrick

[djb78]

Sounds like a good idea but I still reckon that if I tried to close ring some of my birds either I destroy the nest, find young to late or just the simple way parents leave the nest. There would be many failed nests to do this I believe. I do close ring canaries and have no real problems but this has been dine for many years so it seems then norm for them. Some finches may allow this but many won't.

[desertbirds]

If you buy Gouldians at over 75% coloured they usually all survive if you want uncoloured young birds.Under that they you have more of a risk of death.

This is why some people wont buy those uncoloured birds. Its a myth that you may lose more and the birds wont survive. Uncoloured Gouldians could be 6 months old and there is no real issue unless relocating to a colder climate mid moult. Good healthy birds in a reasonable size aviary wont fall off the perch. I would be reluctant to buy Diamonds that are coloured at any price unless i knew the breeder, same could be said for many of finches. Some will be courting and choosing a mate long before they are adult and fully coloured.

[Tiaris]

If I had to close ring all my young birds I probably wouldn't breed finches. Other than Gouldians I don't touch finch nests or pre-fledged young at all unless they have fallen from the nest & I firmly believe that this is the only feasible way to breed many species in a more "natural" way. People can either take it or leave it as far as believing what I say regarding age or lineage of my coloured birds sold. I breed birds primarily for myself & if others wish to purchase my surplus birds based on trust and the condition of the birds, they are welcome to do so.

[mickw]

Here here tiaris

Its all about trust......its mostly the impatient or inexperienced that get caught........If I buy a bird I dont bleat about the person I bought it from if it drops off the perch.

A national system of ringing will never work here.........we like our space and dont respond well to Colonial Administrative Systems or regulation..........too much Irish convict in our blood!

[djb78]

Tiaris I don't think anybody would pick on how you do things and trust is earned not given and all the people who you deal with would trust your word. Like you if I had to ring all my birds to regulations I would be thinking about which direction I would be going also.