Wild birds and disease risk - a contradiction?

[mattymeischke]

Just thinking about how to handle quarantine; I currently have some new birds from breeders and am getting some new birds from the big aviary, and I only have one dedicated quarantine space. It seems to me that there is a bit of a contradiction in the received wisdom here.

Apparently one of the reasons why we worm our birds, when we can see that wild birds thrive without worming, is that our birds live in confined spaces and are more likely to ingest their own faeces or or that of other birds than wild birds are. They are therefore likely to have a greater parasite burden and the problems that come with it, including greater susceptibility to acute illness.
This seems to imply that wild birds have a low/absent parasite burden.

However, I understand that one of the reasons not to keep wild-caught birds with captive-bred ones is the risk of transmission of disease from the wild birds to the captive-bred ones. Advocates of fully-roofed aviaries list among the benefits of this approach that captive birds cannot get diseases from sparrows and other wild birds that hang around.

So are the wild ones disease-ridden harbingers of flock death, or robust specimens with low/absent parasite burden? Or is it that there is no way of knowing, so the precautionary principle applies?

If we are looking to avoid introducing unknown pathogens to the flock, is there any benefit from blind dosing with Moxi or similar, or is it better to observe for forty days for signs of illness and release them into the flock if they remain well?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,
mm.

[Danny]

In answer to your questions - no, no, yes, yes and no and no.
It is not uncommon for wild birds to have parasites. Parasites and hosts usually live happily together and a status quo is established. A primary reason why s status quo can be established is proximity - reinfecting when you live in the big aviary is infrequent. Think of it like a speeding camera - on the back rd to Windorah the chances of being picked up speeding is pretty low due to low chance of meeting a cop car whilst in inner suburbs the chances are greatly increased due to increased exposure.
In captivity the status quo is tipped as the reinfection rate is skewed - the chances of coming into contact with infected faecal material may be greatly increased. Additionally, wild birds may have been exposed to pathogens that might not normally be exposed to captive birds.
Faecal testing is the only way to identify parasite burdens and is recommended rather than just 40 days of observation.

[mattymeischke]

Thanks, Danny.

[Tintola]

At the risk of an onslaught of criticism, I rarely , if ever, treat my birds for anything unless they are showing signs of needing it. This might not be very scientific but I think "If it ain't broke etc. etc". I've been keeping and breeding birds and fish, cold water, tropical and marine, since I was seven yrs old and have learnt that, especially in fish that the chemical soup that can be created can be more lethal that the perceived sickness. With the birds, desert or dry climate birds are kept in very dry aviaries with sand flooring. Rainforest birds are kept in dirt floor aviaries where the leaf litter is constantly being topped up. I feel proper housing, sun, good diet, no overcrowding, starting out with healthy birds and a stress free environment is conducive to healthy birds. As with humans, and any other species of animal or bird, a certain amount of parasites boosts and matures the immune system and to be totally parasite free is not necessarily a good thing.

Having said that I totally agree with Danny and keep most meds on hand if the need arises. I rarely get deaths but when anyone keeps livestock you are going to get deadstock on the occasion as everything has a use by date. Do we regularly treat ourselves for parasites/diseases? I know that I don't, I treat things as they occur. Many a sickly child or bird is the result of over medication with antibiotics etc. Medications certainly have their place, used correctly and when needed and as Danny said, faecal testing for excessive pathogens is probably a better tool than over dosing to create a sterile population. Just my thoughts on Matty's interesting thread.

[E Orix]

Thanks Danny and Tintola Music to my ears BUT there is one point that is good advice.
Rather than just pouring chemicals into your birds,check the faecal matter first as you may be surprised that medication is not required.
Next step maybe Danny or Myzomela can assist us in how the layman can check this out and what would they be looking for.

[mattymeischke]

I agree strongly with the idea of not giving gratuitous medication; hence the question.
Danny has written an excellent book on the subject, which I got online from ABK.
Now, to fix the fuse on the old microscope....

[Myzomela]

I agree with what has been written above.

The only problem is that not all diseases can be monitored by faecal examination.
Tapeworm segments, for example, are shed intermittently so not finding tapeworm segments or eggs in a faecal sample does not mean you don't have the problem.
Equally, faecal examination won't detect chlamydial infections and other systemic diseases such as beak and feather disease (in parrot aviaries). Many diseases, but not all, will become apparent during a 45 day quarantine period ie the birds will appear unwell. Then you have to find out what the problem is.

EOrix, it would be ideal for those birdkeepers interested to check their own droppings.
As Matty has said, Danny's book is an excellent starting point. However, there is nothing like practical experience to be able to sort through all the debris that is also present whenever you look at a faecal sample.

This is something that cannot be easily explained on a forum like this. People need to have a play themselves with their own microscope to get a feel for how it all works.
Then you need to examine some samples with someone experienced in the field like an avian veterinarian. Then you can learn to identify what is significant and what is just debris.

I have toyed around with the idea of running workshops to do exactly this and there may be some happening in the next 6 months in the Sydney area.

[Tiaris]

... it would be ideal for those birdkeepers interested to check their own droppings.....

No thanks, not interested.

[Tintola]

... it would be ideal for those birdkeepers interested to check their own droppings.....

No thanks, not interested.

Myzo, I can't believe that you said that. The National Bowel Cancer Screening Program is better equipped for that sort of thing. You can't get away with any bloopers on here

[SamDavis]

... it would be ideal for those birdkeepers interested to check their own droppings.....

No thanks, not interested.

I have toyed around with the idea of running workshops to do exactly this and there may be some happening in the next 6 months in the Sydney area.

If bird poop then I'm interested. Would it be a practical workshop where we could maybe bring in our own poop samples. Just a thoguht, but maybe you could use a school or uni science lab where there'd be plenty of microsopes for all to get hands on experience.

This thread confuses me - I've been worming my birds each season for years and thought this was the recommended strategy (given my lack of poop examination skills). To keep it simple I worm at the beginning of each season so all mine were dosed on the 1st of September and a followup dose will follow on the 14th September. The bulk of articles I've read seem to recommend this precautionary worming practice and to my knowledge this is what virtually everyone I know does.