Wild birds and disease risk - a contradiction?

[E Orix]

Myzo
I know what you mean,just let them know how educated you are

[COUNTRY CAPITAL]

we are indeed fortunate to have such edumucated souls on this forum!
don't let them diminish your enthusiasm myzo....
what were you talking about again matty?
oh yeah....for what it's worth i try to follow the 40 day program, mostly monitoring though rather than medicating, except for a general worming treatment.

[Myzomela]

I can't believe I wrote that...
Well picked up guys!

To quote a well-respected philosopher...

"My cat's name is Mittens..."

Ralph, The Simpsons.

[mattymeischke]

I would also be interested in a micro workshop, Myzo.
For the time being, I will find a way to keep the ferals separate.
Sam, I don't regularly worm but do regularly postmortem dead birds.
When I found worms in one in April, I wormed the lot.
Ideally, I would do a pooled faecal float every now and again to preempt the 'deadstock' my current practice requires to alert me to the presence of problems.
I have given it a go, but I don't have much confidence in my abilities.

[Myzomela]

Sam,
The gist of the thread is to question how necessary it is to routinely treat our birds for worms, coccidia etc.

Rather than routinely using chemicals, wouldn't it be better to check if they have any diseases, then treat only if necessary?

In practical terms it is much easier to just routinely perform these treatments, rather than go to the trouble of testing their droppings etc.

As a vet I would rather prevent disease rather than treat a sick bird.
However, our reliance on drugs alone to do this is not very far-sighted and there may be long term consequences ( parasite resistance to drugs; possible side effects in our birds from prolonged exposure to chemicals).

My argument has always been:

1)prevent the bugs from getting into the aviary wherever possible ( ie adequate quarantine including screening or preventative treatment)
2) Ensure that the aviary environment doesn't favour the proliferation of these bugs.

Get these 2 points right and your reliance on drugs will be much less.

[SamDavis]

I have given it a go, but I don't have much confidence in my abilities.

Matty I'd have far more confidence in your abilities in this area than I'd ever hope to have!

Sam,
The gist of the thread is to question how necessary it is to routinely treat our birds for worms, coccidia etc.

Rather than routinely using chemicals, wouldn't it be better to check if they have any diseases, then treat only if necessary?

In practical terms it is much easier to just routinely perform these treatments, rather than go to the trouble of testing their droppings etc.

As a vet I would rather prevent disease rather than treat a sick bird.
However, our reliance on drugs alone to do this is not very far-sighted and there may be long term consequences ( parasite resistance to drugs; possible side effects in our birds from prolonged exposure to chemicals).

My argument has always been:

1)prevent the bugs from getting into the aviary wherever possible ( ie adequate quarantine including screening or preventative treatment)
2) Ensure that the aviary environment doesn't favour the proliferation of these bugs.

Get these 2 points right and your reliance on drugs will be much less.

Thanks myzo - I understand the argument and I guess the best course of action depends on the individual breeder and their setup.
To assess the success of strategies 1) and 2) above requires routine poop tests. For the average joe with a small collection this is not going to happen so they don't know if they need to rely on drugs. Hence isn't it smarter for them to perform regular preventative treatments? Most people do this with other pets such as dogs, horses and cats. My understanding is that drugs such as Moxidectin and Baycox are very safe with no known side effects (to date). On the other hand many parasites are known to cause disease resulting in death.

Those breeders who are not routinely treating:
- Do you routinely do poop examinations? This would seem difficult to accomplish with large collections (although is done by sheep and cattle graziers I understand).
- Or do you wait for symptoms and then treat accordingly?

[Tiaris]

I know quite a few cattle & sheep graziers all of whom routinely drench preventatively for various internal (& some external) parasites rather than examining faecal samples or waiting for problems to occur. I know this approach is fraught with resistance and other problems but this is by far the most common commercially accepted practice for any large herds. I guess the larger the bird collection the more viable it becomes to routinely drench for worms as a prevention rather than waiting for problems to arise. Collecting samples & examining them is far more difficult, time consuming & disruptive for a reasonably large collection of birds held in relatively large aviaries too so a preventative drenching routine with staggering of available chemicals is my approach. This also suits me as I don't have the ability to identify microscopic organisms under a microscope. Precautionary principle over-riding the decision to some extent but other aviary design & commonsense hazard reduction measures also taken. I simply don't want to wait until I have sick birds.

[E Orix]

There are too many variables when it comes to making a decision on blanket medication.
I totally disagree in broad statements as it creates a black and white situation.
The requirement/needs vary from area to area,aviary type,roofed /unroofed/birdroom and some species
are not as effected as others.
I am not even worried about experienced breeders methods,what concerns me as new people come into our hobby
they may get the impression that if they have birds they must worm.These are the people that put their birds at a huge
risk as they do not has the skills to determine when to dose,how to dose and what to dose with.
By pushing that to test first, dose second if needed, these people should learn for themselves in why they are actually medicating.
How to medicate properly and learn not just to worm because so and so says so.