So I have a couple of beautiful mules at present. Fatso is a canary-goldfinch mule and George is a Green Singer-Canary mule.
George sings wonderfully: long, strong, frequent, varied song a lot like canary song, though his contact call is more like a green singer. At the behest of the "Maltese Master of Mules" who bred him, I have not let him out into the big aviaries but kept him in a breeding cabinet where he seems very happy but underoccupied.
I was thinking of giving him a mate, but didn't want to stress him out, so last week I put a proven and steady white canary hen in with him and watched. He responded immediately, doing a fluttering thing before bursting forth with his beautiful song. She was obviously underwhelmed, and tried to ignore him, but was not put out by it. She is becoming a bit more comfortable with him now.
I know that the development of the red factor canary began with hybridisation with red siskins until a 'fertile mule' was struck, permitting hybrid progeny which could be bred back to the canaries. I know that this is very unlikely stuff, but wonder:
(a) Is there any possible problem with letting George have a girlfriend?
(b) Is there any chance that they will try to breed?
(c) Is it even plausible that they could breed?
I am less appalled by hybrids than many on this forum; indeed I have a few and find them fascinating for many reasons. I am inclined to let her stay with him, give them some nesting pans and see what happens.
Random question two: mule marriages
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mattymeischke
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Avid amateur aviculturalist; I keep mostly australian and foreign finches.
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
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natamambo
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If he's a mule the worst that can happen is her effort "raising" a few dud eggs. If he's not a mule (are they proven mules? - I don't know such birds, maybe a fertile bird is not possible) then you're asking our blessing to promulgate a sin you've already declared you enjoy 
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jusdeb
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Whatever floats your boat ... Im sure you are responsible enough to keep the horde under control . 
Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue.
David Brent
David Brent
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mattymeischke
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Mercifully for you lot, I do not seek your imprimatur before engaging in sinful acts.
I'm more interested in if there's any problem I haven't thought of, and just how long the odds are.
Usually, mules are infertile. The chance of them being fertile increases if the parents are more closely related.
Pure Aberdeens are rare because crossing with Cutthroats makes a fertile hybrid, which can then go on to commit the mortal sin of genetic pollution.
Similarly, I understand that blue-fronted cordon bleus disappeared through hybridisation with bluecaps.
Parrots seem particularly good at making fertile hybrids; perhaps because they are very closely related to each other compared with most other bird groups.
Most hybrids are infertile, however, like the real mule (or ass).
The common canary mules produced for singers are held to be infertile, but the red canary was created by introducing genes from the red siskin by the hybridisation.
My understanding of this is that these canary mules can occasionally be fertile, and that the unlikely production of a fertile red siskin x canary hybrid was the key to creating the red factor canary.
Green singers (Serinus mozambicus) are in the same genus as canaries (Serinus canarius), whereas red siskins are in a different genus (Carduelis cucullata), so I'm hoping that George might be fertile.
So I suppose the question is: Do I have Buckley's chance or none of this pair making a fertile egg?
I'm more interested in if there's any problem I haven't thought of, and just how long the odds are.
His father was a green singer (probably still is), his mother was a goldfinch. He looks a bit of both, but mostly like a green singer. He is smaller than a normal canary.natamambo wrote:are they proven mules? - I don't know such birds, maybe a fertile bird is not possible
Usually, mules are infertile. The chance of them being fertile increases if the parents are more closely related.
Pure Aberdeens are rare because crossing with Cutthroats makes a fertile hybrid, which can then go on to commit the mortal sin of genetic pollution.
Similarly, I understand that blue-fronted cordon bleus disappeared through hybridisation with bluecaps.
Parrots seem particularly good at making fertile hybrids; perhaps because they are very closely related to each other compared with most other bird groups.
Most hybrids are infertile, however, like the real mule (or ass).
The common canary mules produced for singers are held to be infertile, but the red canary was created by introducing genes from the red siskin by the hybridisation.
My understanding of this is that these canary mules can occasionally be fertile, and that the unlikely production of a fertile red siskin x canary hybrid was the key to creating the red factor canary.
Green singers (Serinus mozambicus) are in the same genus as canaries (Serinus canarius), whereas red siskins are in a different genus (Carduelis cucullata), so I'm hoping that George might be fertile.
So I suppose the question is: Do I have Buckley's chance or none of this pair making a fertile egg?
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Avid amateur aviculturalist; I keep mostly australian and foreign finches.
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
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finchbreeder
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Hmm. Well to be honest the only way to answer that question is to try it. And so long as you have no intention of trying to sell any resultant prodgeny as anything but what they are. And we all know you do not. Then go for it. It is wrong if you are using less common birds or passing them off as something they are not. He is already a hybrid and she is a common canary. One proviso. We want to know what happens. And worse case you can use them as fosters for real canarys who produce large nests.
LML
LML
LML
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elferoz777
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So I suppose the question is: Do I have Buckley's chance or none of this pair making a fertile egg?[/quote]
Go for it buddy,
I got crucified on here for even suggesting that I would want to create a green singerXgoldfinch mule.
Like you I am attracted to the appearance and song of mule. though I don't aim to have a fertile mule the though has often crossed my mind as to the possible combinations.
Bull finch mules look great though I have only seen these online.
Tell me, how do you breed yours? cabinets or aviary (plus a heap of luck)
Do you use the same method on your singer as most do for canary/goldfinch mules?
Go for it buddy,
I got crucified on here for even suggesting that I would want to create a green singerXgoldfinch mule.
Like you I am attracted to the appearance and song of mule. though I don't aim to have a fertile mule the though has often crossed my mind as to the possible combinations.
Bull finch mules look great though I have only seen these online.
Tell me, how do you breed yours? cabinets or aviary (plus a heap of luck)
Do you use the same method on your singer as most do for canary/goldfinch mules?
Breeding Project 2020-2025.
agate mosaic canaries, agate yellow mosaic canaries, red zebs, self bengos and goldfinch mules.
agate mosaic canaries, agate yellow mosaic canaries, red zebs, self bengos and goldfinch mules.