Australian blue goulds

[Finchy]

Paul, people like to create variations of the same name to assist with understanding the genetic foundations of their birds. This is very sensible. Not essential, but sensible. By contrast, giving random names based on superficial appearances produces a minefield of confusion for breeders new to the hobby.

Also, I would not be so quick to criticise our pre-eminent avian experts who determined that Pastel (Euro Yellow) hens carry only one copy of this gene. Hens can only carry one copy, which is all that's needed to produce a visually yellow bird, whereas cocks require two copies to display the same colour. It is entirely correct to refer to hens as 'single factor'. (...which reinforces the point - systematic naming helps. Calling a bird a 'Single Factor Pastel hen' tells us everything we need to know; calling it a 'yellow hen' tells us almost nothing other than it's a very pretty bird .)

[Diane]

people like to create variations of the same name to assist with understanding the genetic foundations of their birds.

(...which reinforces the point - systematic naming helps.

Dont you think those two statements are a contradiction in terms?
According to definition, systematic is = "Done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical."
I cant see how creating several different names for the same mutation is either fixed, planned, methodical or assists with anyone understanding, nor how doing that could mean it could be considered systematic.

[Finchy]

Oh bb, and just after you made so many good points...

No.

"Variations on the same name" = systematic/methodical. Shiraz, Cabernet, Merlot... Cabernet-Shiraz, Cabernet-Merlot. Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8.

"Randomly selected colour names" = unsystematic. Red, Darkish Red, The Dry One, The One With The Oaky Stuff In It, Sweetish And a Lot Like the First Red One Only Sort Of Lighter

[iaos]

Oh bb, and just after you made so many good points...

No.

"Variations on the same name" = systematic/methodical. Shiraz, Cabernet, Merlot... Cabernet-Shiraz, Cabernet-Merlot. Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8.

"Randomly selected colour names" = unsystematic. Red, Darkish Red, The Dry One, The One With The Oaky Stuff In It, Sweetish And a Lot Like the First Red One Only Sort Of Lighter

Australian yellow and blue are the mutations not the colours. So while the bird may not be yellow or blue the name of the mutation describes its genetics. Kinda like cab-merlot

[gouldianpaul]

Hi Finchy,

Since you are so curious about names....what's yours.

Cheers
Paul

[natamambo]

Paul, I have no problems with mutations. I'm getting the pearl longtail mutation established nicely in my flock, building up a good base of stock. Kept many other mutations over the years, especially budgies in my youth. I'm just having a dig at the desperate attempt to breed almost all colour out of such a beautiful bird. I do however fully acknowledge the avicultural dedication to establishing a mutation (or in this case multiple mutations in one bird since it's not a new mutation at all).

[gouldianpaul]

Paul, people like to create variations of the same name to assist with understanding the genetic foundations of their birds. This is very sensible. Not essential, but sensible. By contrast, giving random names based on superficial appearances produces a minefield of confusion for breeders new to the hobby.

Also, I would not be so quick to criticise our pre-eminent avian experts who determined that Pastel (Euro Yellow) hens carry only one copy of this gene. Hens can only carry one copy, which is all that's needed to produce a visually yellow bird, whereas cocks require two copies to display the same colour. It is entirely correct to refer to hens as 'single factor'. (...which reinforces the point - systematic naming helps. Calling a bird a 'Single Factor Pastel hen' tells us everything we need to know; calling it a 'yellow hen' tells us almost nothing other than it's a very pretty bird .)

Hi Finchy,

I forgot to add....just because a person has published a book, doesn't mean their opinion cannot be questioned. There are plenty of Gouldian experts on this forum....just because they haven't published a book doesn't mean their ideas are worth ignoring.

Cheers
Paul

[Diane]

Oh bb, and just after you made so many good points...

Glad it had your approval.
Cant say I know enough about wines to comment, and not too much more about Windows!
However, the Windows systems all have similar parent backgrounds, they all come from the same basic programming, but more than likely one can do things that the other cannot.
As in Windows or gouldians, all it needs is that one hidden program/gene to make things come out differently, which is why I strongly advocate a recognized shorthand naming system based on genetics not fancy marketing names and more importantly for breeders to keep records.

Getting any naming system to be accepted isnt going to happen quickly thats for sure, and certainly not easily, its ingrained to fight against any form of regimentation in Australia I know but in this case I feel it could work.
Lets face it using many varieties of the same thing has got us in a right mess. So more of the same doesnt to me seem like it would make the already muddy waters any clearer.

[Mr Tino]

Hi Finchy you are one who think that we should call it another name,where you cant understand how that bird got it name from. I will use example of another breed,when you put Australia dilute to a blue what shell we call it,should call stronzo back or Australia dilute blue ,it make sense to call it Australia dilute blue ,it was derive from two mutation to get that new colour,so what is your point you are try to make to me and other,if you look hard enough in Eurythura mutation site you would have found this bird and it would have made sense to you and explain to you how this look like.Bye for now.

Cheer from Mr Tino

[TomDeGraaff]

I once belonged to a Psittacine Genetics forum. You can imagine how tangled they often got with pallid, faded, chatreuse and magenta (last two are not real!).

The greatest problems were as has been discussed here: names, inconsistencies and relating to other species.
I think the term faded was used from a mouse mutation !!!!!!!

I posed an idea that we adopt a scientific term for these things (which would list the mutations etc in their genotypes) and would be used globally -just like a scientific species name. THEN anyone can call a bird strawbacked, threetoed, or late for dinner if they liked. The scientific genetic name would be used as an extra to the common name just as scientific name is used now.

Naturally the idea received amazing reaction - absolute silence !!! I thoughht I was thinking laterally but perhaps I was just thinking in another language