dead chick

[Redwing]

Had some painteds chicks hatch about 3 or 4 days ago to first time parents. They have laid and sat on one lot of eggs a few months ago but about the time the eggs were due to hatch they stopped sitting. The eggs were fertile so I put it down to inexperience or possibly some sort of disturbance. Today found a chick dead on the floor at the other end of the aviary with 2 puncture marks in its chest/abdomen and both feet missing. In the aviary are 2 other pairs of painteds, a pair of gouldians and a pair of cubans and a single star male. All have been together for some time with no sign of aggression. The cubans have had one clutch and were perfectly well mannered during the whole process. Should I be concerned? Any clues from anyone? I have seen no signs of mouse activity.

[Diane]

Thats a bit weird isnt it, seems like the signatures of 2 different predators.

2 puncture marks in its chest/abdomen

Snake?

both feet missing

Mice?

But I would have thought if it was killed by a snake first (2 puncture marks) then the corspe wouldnt have been around for any mice to nibble at the feet and if mice were nibbling the feet is wasnt worth the snake biting it before it consumed the body.

[Redwing]

Sorry I didn't make the injuries clear ... they weren't just puncture marks but actual holes about 2mm diameter. Also we have no snakes in the area where I live.

[E Orix]

When people breed birds out of season they will get a far larger failure rate.
My guess it may have been the smallest and the parents just let it drop off in hope of getting the others through.
Why the puncture marks, most likely the other birds have actually been feeding on the body.
It is a common thing for birds to do this, Double Bars, St Helenas, Stars etc will actually fight over a body either fresh or long dead.
Java Sparrows will take dead birds, lizards or what ever into their nest, maybe they think that if it is smelly predators will not bother them.
Just keep an eye on them.

[Pete Sara]

Don't you believe that one bit redwing, there is a nice colony of tiger snakes on herrison island. We had dugites at burswood and at tennis west. Also up near the ag dept....Oh you got them , you just done see them...

[Redwing]

Thanks EOrix that would make sense, didn't actually plan for them to breed but have brush as a divider to provide a sheltered area and they took matters into their own hands. Have cranked up the green seed as soon as I discovered them and started to give them some mealworms.
Thanks also Pete for the snake info. Have seen them at work, coming in from the bushland opposite the Ag Dept and would also expect them on the island and at Burswood, but I can tell you if we had them in our backyard I would have a dead dog, as she has her nose into everything and is a keen but unsuccessful ratter.
All well today and parents sitting tight and eating lots, but will certainly keep a close eye on them all.
Don't know about others, but what I would really like is a chart with breeding times for some of the common birds for WA conditions.

[mickw]

Thanks EOrix that would make sense, didn't actually plan for them to breed but have brush as a divider to provide a sheltered area and they took matters into their own hands. Have cranked up the green seed as soon as I discovered them and started to give them some mealworms.
Thanks also Pete for the snake info. Have seen them at work, coming in from the bushland opposite the Ag Dept and would also expect them on the island and at Burswood, but I can tell you if we had them in our backyard I would have a dead dog, as she has her nose into everything and is a keen but unsuccessful ratter.
All well today and parents sitting tight and eating lots, but will certainly keep a close eye on them all.
Don't know about others, but what I would really like is a chart with breeding times for some of the common birds for WA conditions.

You definitely have snakes.......but I'm not saying they killed your bird......see BB's rationale........there's nowhere "sans slither" in this country ......

I think you're onto it....sorta......your birds have suddenly hit a resource deficit .....you need to up the greens and live food, and be consistent........whilst Painteds have a reputation of not requiring live food, they will......mine are first to smash the termites, especially just AFTER the chicks have fledged.....my WE Maskeds hit "em about a week after hatching, the Parsons gorge themselves whilst incubating......they all take at differnet times within the cycle.....and individual behaviour varies considerably....i think the chick throw is usually a signal, to the keeper, from the would-be parents......"something's not right" ....start by increasing resources, and making them consistant.

You ask for breeding charts for your area.......fair enough....better still, get to know and read the environmental signs and turning points.....our climate is inherently variable, ie it may always grab the news headline .....but it would be better to understand and read it yourself thasn to relay on a simplified table based on hard-gained data

It could be mice, but as EOrix points out, our beloved feathered friends can be quite brutal.............there's no Civil Rights Movement in the Finch fraternity...........

[Redwing]

Thanks Mick, have been giving lots of green seed twice a day, making sure there's more than enough for everyone in the aviary. Had the first chick from that nest fledge today, I would guess a day or too early, but the new parents are very attentive, particularly the male and there's plenty of shelter. After reading your advice I'll now increase the mealworms to twice a day, but don't have access to termites. This chick has fledged with more red on its front than any others I've had so here's hoping it's a predictor of a nicely coloured adult later.
Keeping a watchfull eye out for mice but no evidence at the moment.
The bit of rain we've had and a few warmer days have set my other painteds and cubans into nesting mode.

[iva]

I have a mixed aviary and had dead chicks few times so I blamed my Java Finches. I removed them and problem remained. Discovered mice that were coming through very fine square wire. Fixed the problem by putting double wire all over aviary. No mice.