When to start the breeding season ?

[Cacoonkitty]

Hi all, well I have a small collection of juts 9 birds...it is the middle of November and a week ago i bought a nest just for interest sake and put it into my aivary , the red faced P/ F started to construct a nest almost straight away !!

Today I noticed that the female had thinning feathers on the back of her neck and she looked a little scruffy...unlike she did two weeks ago....I couldn't understand this as the co k bird looks top!!

I went to an avian vet specialist today to get a diet plan for my Gouldians and he advised me that as this was the moulting season I should take the nest out until the end of December and then replace it if I wanted to breed my birds...as this would give them time to focus on the moulting season....does anyone else do this kind of thig to...makes sense ! :-/ Xx

[KENTUCKY]

I hope that you have DEEEEP pockets, why not learn about your subject first before you rush into it, go to the forums archive and you will have a smorgarsboard of subjects to choose from, and the best part about it, its free,
Gouldians are NOT a beginners bird, I can understand your attraction to Gouldians but, you are going the wrong way about it,
sadly, at present I can only see disappointment coming your way,it can be heart breaking.

[E Orix]

Firstly I can not see any reason to visit a vet to get data on Aviculture, there are far far better venues mainly due to the fact that
only a very few Vets know anything about Avian issues.
Secondly I would definitely change from that vet as I do not agree with his opinion, the hen Parrot Finch may be going to a moult but I am more inclined to think that the male P/Finch is driving her to nest. The scruffy neck is generally a sign in P/Finches that the male is constantly mating with her.
Having no hands he simply holds her neck feathers with his beak so he doesn't fall off hence the scruffy neck area.
By the way there are several hundred birds here and I doubt if there would be one bird moulting this time of the year.
Yours could be but unlikely.
It is not my position to say what you keep, that is your decision. What I will say is if you get good birds you should make every effort to learn about what they need to survive and hopefully breed.
The needs of birds to survive is quite basic and can be found easily, it gets more complicated when a breeding program is required.
You have the birds so it is now up to you to ask questions, at least if your questions are answered off the Forum they are free.

[TomDeGraaff]

Hello Cacoonkitty. I wonder if I can offer some observations which may or may not apply to you. They are just things I have noticed over 43 years of aviculture.

When starting out with keeping animals, we all want the best for them and we often fall foul of bad advice. Vets are great for medical issues but most are just plain lousy with regard to actual, practical management of stock. They are educated about cats, dogs and livestock, not much about birds. Specialist vets are different.

To maintain your birds, I suggest you purchase at least one of the very good books on the subject of keeping and breeding birds. If finches are the only birds you are interested in, then there are a few very good specialist books on this subject. Some species are much harder to maintain and breed than others. People need to work up to these. I reckon you will be fine with the Gouldians and red-faced parrotfinches. New birdos can spread themselves too thin in these early stages (too many birds = too many issues/details to cover).

I believe the most important things to watch with your birds are dampness, drafts and overcrowding. Your birds will moult according to their annual life cycle and will survive happily on a good basic finch seed mix, cuttlefish and grit. Seeding grasses and greens are important supplements.

Many people new to the hobby buy birds THEN think about how to care for them. I am not speaking about you but about people in general. It is important to research them first by using the excellent archives on this forum and to also read. The forum is great because it is interactive. For breeding, there are things we can do during the year to prepare for, support and wind down the breeding efforts of our birds.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Tom

[iaos]

The vets advice may have been directed only about gouldians. Which is correct the are moulting and should be held back from breeding at the moment.

As for the parrot-finches, as has been said before, the scruffy neck is a sign of breeding and if it was me I'd be doing all I could to keep them breeding.

Cheers Ian

[elferoz777]

Here is my diet plan for the goulds,

Finch mix, chicory , seeding grass heads and egg shell (zapped in the microwave)

I give this to my birds all year round and dont have a diet for them.

I figure if they have the best all year round then they will always be in tip top condition.

I learnt lots about them on here and you wont always get shot down when asking a question. . . most of the time.


I had a look on Ebay for a good gouldian book and scored one for about $ 12. Gave me a good foundation for when I started keeping them but then again I still needed to bounce ideas and scenarios of other breeders.

Good luck and ditch the vet...

You will only end up paying of his yacht.

[Cacoonkitty]

Hi guys, I appreciate your replys...but perhaps I didn't make my first post clear and I mixed this post up with other subjects.......I have 5 gouldians and 2 red faced parrots and 2 normal stars...that's all....I am 34 years old and have kept many animals in the past ..most that "in this country" you may only see in zoos...let alone keep and breed in your home...i kept over 43 different species of reptile mainly species of geckos, goannas, chameleons and iguanas ( that in many ways have very similar needs nutritionaly as birds with regards to vitamin D and calcium etc etc) now my reptiles were all in immaculate condition and most were also very advanced species...I was lucky enough to own a pair of fijian iguanas licenced as criticaly endanged and they were all doing very well indeed, there is only one pair of these in the whole of Australia...kept at a zoo near me and they are attempting to breed them and will never succeed due to there method of housing ! So just a background of my animal care and the difficult species I have kept with success.

Now with regards to my birds...I didn't buy them on a whim or just off the cuff...I did read up about these animals prior and have kept birds before in the U.K but these were parrots not finches and it was not my intention to breed my birds straight away.....however when owning birds it can never be the same as reading a book as they always surprise you but rest assured I will buy a good bird book as soon as I source one that is not aimed at children !

I attempted to find some birds near me on the central coast and have to say I found it very difficult to source birds that I considered in good health and also species that were other than zebra fiches ...I finaly found a place near sydney who said they had Gouldians.....but when i visited sadly they did not have any left and instead I purchased 4 birds there that day..all which seemed fine...a pair of stars which are lovely , a pair of red faced parrots which again were lovely.....and a week later I managed to source some Gouldians from a private breeder near me...I went and collected these birds a pair of reds, and a trio of orange heads and put them into a separate enclosure for quarantine period ....now these are just baby's , going through there colour change now.....I researched a vet called Dr Robert Marshal, he is a world renowned avian vet who is based in Sydney, he specialises in avian species and especial the gouldian finch...I have been in touch with an American breeder who has sworn by his mentoring and infact has endorsed his products and diet plan on her well known website.

On Saturday I took my birds to see Dr Marshall...my reason was I had noticed that they had a majority of head pin feathers that indicated to me they had a suppressed moult which could be nutritional or related to airsac mites but i could not buy the product S76 to treat air sac mites as this was a vetinary prescribed product only produced by him and I do not trust shop bought products very much and prefer veterinary recommended or breeder recommended products........he checked my birds for health and said they were nice strong birds but did say they were in suppressed moult which was probably nutritional , he also did a dropping test ( a wet smear, a gram stain and a culture test ) to check for disease or illness that may be lurking and he has given me a special diet plan to improve there nutrition of my gouldians and to help them through the young moult and has prescribed the S76 as a routine treatment. I do not believe I wasted my money , he knew exactly what he was looking for and was very clear about there needs.

While I was there I also mentioned my red faced finches breeding and the thinning of her feathers and he said that the diet plan will also benefit these finches too ....he said that if you took the nest out they would stop breeding and to get there nutrition right up there first and then to bring this back around December time for better results, now I felt that many comments on this post have been a little negative if course I am still open to recommendation relating to my RED FACED PAROTTS and there breeding season as these were what I was actually relating this original post about.

I I hope i have made it clearer that I will provide my birds with the best care I can and I was only asking a question regarding my parrot finches not the Gouldians.............I am new to this country,I am Australian but have lived abroad in the U.K for 26 years now and I do not know the area well nor the seasons , I will not say I am experienced as a keeper of finches...I am not, but I do take very good care of my birds and I will do the best i can....was purely asking a question regarding the parrot faced finches....I wanted to know when there breeding season was in THIS country and when I should stop this ??? Thanks guys...I hope it is easier to understand I have not wasted my money at a vet that knows nothing regarding avian species.

[maureen_g]

Hi Cacoonkitty. You haven't done anything wrong! I am a relative beginner with finches and make plenty of mistakes but am doing ok and the birds are doing fine. But I collect green seeding grass every day for them and give them sprouted seed every day. I have recently been breeding maggots for them as I was advised that mealies aren't good for the live food eaters by a very respected finch breeder. Your RFPF pair will need live food and they are BIG pigs when it comes to food. The Goulds won't need live food but will need the other stuff. Rob Marshall is no idiot and is a highly respected avian vet. But there is a ton of great advice to be had on this forum. Don't be put off by a bit of criticism. Just keep asking

[Craig52]

CK,i don't know what you are on about,i've gone back through your topics and all but one one has been very informative.Let's start again,your RFPF has missing feathers to the back of the neck due to the mating habits of the cock bird,there is not really a breeding season for RFPF's and if they want to breed they will so leave the nest box in and wait to see what happens.
Gouldians......The pin feathers in your gouldians heads is absolutely normal for this time of the year,they are usually the last pins to break on a gouldian and will be gone in a few weeks leaving a fully coloured bird.
Nest boxes are usually added for your gouldians in February but if you want a mixed collection with PF's and put nest boxes in for them,don't be surprised if the gouldians want to use it also.In other words,there is no set time for them to breed if you supply all the right foods and other goodies.

What people are saying on this topic and other topics is that there is no need to see a Vet for what sounds like good healthy birds that are doing what comes naturally so just settle down and go back through the earlier posts or go to the forum for foreign or Australian finches,there's heaps of information regarding your questions without having to go to a Vet with healthy birds,we are only trying to give advice from experience. Craig

[finchbreeder]

Well having read this post from start to finish, I am not surprised there has been some confusion. So everyone calm down. Accept that some things have been poorly explained. No doubt unintentionally. And lets clarify. CK has wisely started out with a small collection of 9 finches. CK has for her own reasons wisely researched and found a well known and recognised bird vet and got some advice, which she then expalined in a confusing way. This resulted in more confusion by way of response. CK then explained, in a somewhat detailed but still slightly disjointed manner what she has done in the past and present and intends to do in the future. Including comparing reptile keeping with bird keeping. Relavence unclear.
LML