Democracy and Fairness.

[Spitfire]

I will fight to the death for your right to express yourself...wrote some wise man? or something similar.
Then why is it the norm on this Forum that when some person complains or does not like whats written on a post you quickly see a Moderator
Lock the particular post, usually on the pretext that its off topic.
This happened on Mr Tino's post regarding the Blue Gouldian Buyer that did not pay up, Posts by myself and others continued the theme of Thiefing
and disonesty among sellers, whereupon a complained was posted that the post had veered off its original intent and it summeraly was Locked.
In my opinion the post did not veer off topic and it deserved to be left open.

[BluJay]

Spitfire, I have feeling it was locked ending with Dr.craig52 backhandedly telling me off. Folks are permitted to respond in scarcasism/rudeness but not anger in their response to what they read. I believe that whole topic should be forwarded to the RSPCA and PETA. The article in the QFS should be forwarded to the police. PERIOD. People who sit back and do nothing about the caliber of conduct they complain about are as guilty of the act as the person doing it cause they sat back and did nothing. Permitting it to happening to someone else. In view of this, these allegations, are vague allegations and slanderous comments. And liableous since they have been published. In any and all allegations of animal abuse, is to be reported.
There appears to be issue with expressing outrage to another's comments, and although scarcasim/rudeness is acceptable. This is supposed to be a place for encouragement and support. It's anything but. It functions on the good ole boy system. Which is obsolete.

PS: the disclaimer at the bottom of the form is no protection to it.

[iaos]

Spitfire, my comment in that post was twofold. Firstly I felt the discussion was going around in circles. IMO the same point had been made back and forward several times. Secondly, the thread had moved away from the topic that Tino had started.

Believe it or not the forum is not a democracy. The moderators have the authority for want of a better word to police the forum as they see fit within the rules of the forum.

Luckily there is nothing stopping you from starting a new thread on the desired topic. Sounds fair to me

BluJay, I missed the part where PETA / RSPCA was relevant?

Keeping birds is a hobby, everyone is on this forum because they enjoy keeping finches and other birds. People take the time to ask questions because they want to learn and people respond because they are trying to help.

Happy Saturday finch folk.

Cheers Ian

[BluJay]

Re: Beware to all gouldian finch breeder in all state
by Uraeginthus on 23 Oct 2014, 17:26

It seems to me that people should not buy birds unless they can afford them. I have no qualms about paying for stock before acquiring them. If I have to hold off until pay day, then that's what I do. I buy from people I know or have had recommended to me.
Whether you are buyer or seller, ask around before you buy from someone you don't know.

Conversely, I expect the same courtesy (and checking up about me!) from those to whom I send stock.

On the issue of new acquisitions dying, it's very awkward. Living things die for all sorts of reasons. Aportioning blame is much harder. I don't believe in guarantees and a paper trail can only tell you the passage of the animal from one person to another and the cost involved. BUT if there are signs of deception (selling a split hen of a sex-linked mutation), neglect (no seed or water for the long freight trip) or pre-existing illness (discover wet bottoms upon arrival), then that is different.

I'm afraid that if a perfectly healthy bird drops dead, then it's hard to do anything other than just put it aside as an unfortunate experience. That's life.

Again, caveat emptor comes into play.

Tom

Sounds like abuse to me.
Scarcasim/Rudeness does nothing but humiliate and demean another.

[Lachlan1]

I think a lot of the comments made recently have been made with people riding high on emotion. Of course these issues should be addressed but I don't understand how venting and "arguing" achieves anything. When it comes to these issues they should be pushed forward to the appropriate people and not cause tension on this forum. Sarcasm and rudeness isnt acceptable but lets be honest it is easy to assume tone of voice over the internet when you are upset over a certain topic. This forum is a place for encouragement and support and I have learnt so much since joining. The ole boy system is constantly referred to as a bad thing but there is a reason these guys have the respect and status they do because they did what they did without the huge array of information available to us at the click of a button. Fight the fights worth fighting with the people that have caused the problems and ask the people of the forum on advice but it should never cause an argument. We have all been burnt at least once and we learn from it collectively so it doesnt happen again. RELAX and remember why things like this forum where created in the first place.

[Painted4]

I think a lot of the comments made recently have been made with people riding high on emotion. Of course these issues should be addressed but I don't understand how venting and "arguing" achieves anything. When it comes to these issues they should be pushed forward to the appropriate people and not cause tension on this forum. Sarcasm and rudeness isnt acceptable but lets be honest it is easy to assume tone of voice over the internet when you are upset over a certain topic. This forum is a place for encouragement and support and I have learnt so much since joining. The ole boy system is constantly referred to as a bad thing but there is a reason these guys have the respect and status they do because they did what they did without the huge array of information available to us at the click of a button. Fight the fights worth fighting with the people that have caused the problems and ask the people of the forum on advice but it should never cause an argument. We have all been burnt at least once and we learn from it collectively so it doesnt happen again. RELAX and remember why things like this forum where created in the first place.

Spot on, really.
Its been interesting to read how different people perceive different comments (again, it being hard to determine what 'tone' the message is being sent in over the internet). Like in Uraeginthus' post quoted just before, I read no rudeness or anything in there, just one persons opinion on their experiences.
A few times on here i've read a response to something I have posted, and felt like it was a bit harsh, but upon re-reading it, I realise that it really is just advice, and they were genuinely trying to help/express their opinion.

[BluJay]

Spitfire, my comment in that post was twofold. Firstly I felt the discussion was going around in circles. IMO the same point had been made back and forward several times. Secondly, the thread had moved away from the topic that Tino had started.

Believe it or not the forum is not a democracy. The moderators have the authority for want of a better word to police the forum as they see fit within the rules of the forum.

Luckily there is nothing stopping you from starting a new thread on the desired topic. Sounds fair to me

BluJay, I missed the part where PETA / RSPCA was relevant?

Keeping birds is a hobby, everyone is on this forum because they enjoy keeping finches and other birds. People take the time to ask questions because they want to learn and people respond because they are trying to help.

Happy Saturday finch folk.

Re: Democracy and Fairness.
Postby BluJay on 57 minutes ago
Re: Beware to all gouldian finch breeder in all state
by Uraeginthus on 23 Oct 2014, 17:26

It seems to me that people should not buy birds unless they can afford them. I have no qualms about paying for stock before acquiring them. If I have to hold off until pay day, then that's what I do. I buy from people I know or have had recommended to me.
Whether you are buyer or seller, ask around before you buy from someone you don't know.

Conversely, I expect the same courtesy (and checking up about me!) from those to whom I send stock.

On the issue of new acquisitions dying, it's very awkward. Living things die for all sorts of reasons. Aportioning blame is much harder. I don't believe in guarantees and a paper trail can only tell you the passage of the animal from one person to another and the cost involved. BUT if there are signs of deception (selling a split hen of a sex-linked mutation), neglect (no seed or water for the long freight trip) or pre-existing illness (discover wet bottoms upon arrival), then that is different.

I'm afraid that if a perfectly healthy bird drops dead, then it's hard to do anything other than just put it aside as an unfortunate experience. That's life.

Again, caveat emptor comes into play.

Tom

Sounds like abuse to me.
Scarcasim/Rudeness does nothing but humiliate and demean another.

Cheers Ian

[Alf63]

I can only agree with Lachlan 1 & Painted4.

I have read many posts where it would seem previous comments have been either misread on misconstrued leading to replies that are perhaps a little more "energetic" than required.

I believe the moderators are trying to maintain a level of harmony and prevent topics spiraling out of control. I think the forum would quickly deteroriate without some form of oversight. Personally I consider this to be neither censorship of a breach of democracy.

I will make one comment that hopefully won't upset anyone. If we want nobody to keep birds (either those of good or bad character) then get oganisations like PETA involved in our hobby.

I will now remove myself from this topic and refrain from either reading or commenting any further

Alf63