Silver Gouldian or Pastel.

[Blue Cuban]

After a lengthy chat on the phone to a member from here that has many years of experience and knowledge with breeding Gouldians it appears that we have different opinions on a certain thought.

This thought is "what genetic make up do you class a silver Gouldian to have?".

Ok just in case I haven't made my question clear I class the genetic make up of a blue gouldian to have all green factors, you with me now.

So IMO if I told you I had a silver cock by this I mean I have a Double Factor yellow bird that is influenced by the blue gene NOT a Single Factor white breast cock that is influenced by the blue gene.

Any Gouldian cock bird that is a single factor WB or PB and influenced by the blue gene will always be a SF (pastel) to me.

Keep in mind that it's not a case of "I'm right he's wrong" but more of a case you should call the bird by its genotype and not phenotype.

Oh and by the way I really enjoy our chats about birds I just wish I had shares in Telstra.

So people please share your thoughts and opinions I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Cheers Rich.

[Craig52]

You are right Rich,DF is a silver and so is a hen to look at but she is a pastel blue because she is SF.Single factor blue cocks are pastels also. Craig

[Craig52]

You are right Rich,DF is a silver and so is a hen to look at but she is a pastel blue because she is SF.Single factor blue cocks are pastels also. Craig

It is common practice to call a single factor blue hen a silver because she looks like a double factor blue silver cock but by genetics you cannot get a double factor hen so she remains a single factor pastel blue hen.

[Blue Cuban]

What's your thoughts on calling WB SF Blues cocks silvers?

[Craig52]

What's your thoughts on calling WB SF Blues cocks silvers?

WBSF blue cocks are different in colouring to DFB cocks,they have a pastel blue collar which is more pronounced on the back on the neck and their back is a dirty blue grey.
WBDFBC's are a clear silver colour and virtually a white bird if a BH. Craig

[monotwine]

To keep myself sane, I've had to try make Gouldian genetics almost too simplistic and tried to understand it by comparing the blue vs. silvers to the green vs. yellows. Hopefully I understand this clearly enough (and excludes the Aussie yellows which I've no experience with).

A bird able to display both blue and yellow is a green backed bird.
Basically is it safe to say that the European yellow is just a pastel of green(achieved by removal of birds ability to display blue colour), single or double factor in cock birds complicates things, but you wouldn't refer to either SF or DF as a green back.
So I think of silvers in the same light. Silver is a pastel variety of blue (achieved by removal of birds ability to display blue and yellow), then there is the single and double factor pastel of blue as with yellow (lighter and darker shades of grey).
Same as with yellow birds, the white breast vs. purple breast influences a cock birds overall appearance and usually allows for a more washed out look.

I've not yet ventured into breeding blues / silvers and hope my understanding is along the correct path.

[garyh]

sorry Monotwine,you have it wrong,silver is a blue yellow back,you have to put a blue to a yellow back to achieve silver,you can put split's together to get the same results ,but it's the long way around ,cheers garyh

[gouldianpaul]

You are right Rich,DF is a silver and so is a hen to look at but she is a pastel blue because she is SF.Single factor blue cocks are pastels also. Craig

It is common practice to call a single factor blue hen a silver because she looks like a double factor blue silver cock but by genetics you cannot get a double factor hen so she remains a single factor pastel blue hen.

Hi Craig,

I don't want to sound picky but the YB hen is not single factor. Only the cock can be single or double factor. The hen is simply a YB or not. IMO the Silver hen is called a silver because of her appearance. It is a slightly misleading term as the silver cock is a double factor blue bird, but the hen is only the blue version of the YB.

My thoughts on the Silver/Pastels are:
- Pastel cock is a single factor blue bird. When the WB is put into this bird it is visually very different to the PB. The PB Pastel is a slight variation (visually) to the blue, however the WB version is a much lighter bird.
- Silver Cock is a double factor blue bird. When the WB is put into this bird it is visually very different. In fact the WB silver is almost a white bird.
- Silver hen is a YB blue bird. Looks very similar to the Silver cock bird.

In the end it doesn't matter what terminology is used....just so long as the terminology is consistent and buyer/seller are on the same page.

Cheers
Paul

[alvin]

Hi Guys
Maybe the term "Silver" Should not be used and the pastel/yellow blue should be referred to as:
SF pastel Blue and DF pastel Blue
There is a bit of colour variation in the DF also, not just White,
I have cocks bluey grey, white bibs which my Gouldian book terms DF.
They are not white birds, these birds parents are DF yellow back cock
paired to a pastel blue hen or silver hen if that's what you want to call it.

If you have the book, Guide to Gouldian Finches, check pages 70 and 87

[BluJay]

Pg.70: pics D Van Den Abeele. Bird on left ugly. Right not bad. Pg.87: pics ABK. PIC 1 and 4 nice others ugly. Seems Gouldians are becoming difficult to breed true. Thanks for reminding me I have the book. Regards.