What to do?

[dazzab]

As spring approaches and I prepare for the new breeding season for my birds I am now in a position where I don't know what to do. I keep 4 pairs of birds in my only aviary, painteds, stars, ruddies and red faced parrot finches. Last season I had one of my better seasons where I actually bred a few birds and didn't lose any either. I didn't breed big numbers, just a few rfpf and a couple of ruddies, all just happened to be cock birds. The fact I didn’t lose any was probably what made me happiest after building a new aviary. Anyway, as my luck has been in previous years I went in to feed my birds a couple of weeks ago and found my hen star dead on the ground. I was very disappointed as I thought I was going to go in to a new breeding season with my 4 pairs ready to go. 1 week ago I found my hen rfpf dead on the ground and my disappointment was doubled. Yesterday my hen ruddie was lifeless on the ground and that was about enough for me to throw in the towel! Disappointment is an understatement now and I’m not sure what to do. It seems every year I basically have to start over again and feel I haven’t accomplished anything from the effort I put in. Obviously If I am to continue I need to work out why this has happened. I haven’t let them breed during the winter and only fed them the basics of seed, water, grit, a finch crumble as well as some chickweed or seeding winter grass a couple of times a week for greens. I worm and treat every three months. During the breeding season on top of this I give them soaked/sprouted seed mixed with broccoli and boiled egg, maggots or mealworms, cucumber and seeding grasses I have growing around my yeard.
I know this sounds like a big whinge but after trying for about 6 years and having a few different aviary set ups I really just want to feel some success. What would you do? Would you bother getting more birds to start the season again or just keep the painteds and hope they do well on their own?
Sorry for the long post, I just need some ideas to get me back on track.
Daz

[werty]

first thing I would do is try and find out why the birds are dropping dead

how big is the aviary?
is the aviary covered in plastic?
how many hours of direct sunlight do the birds get?
what type of floor does the aviary have?
how many times a year do you clean the aviary?
how many times a day do you change their water?

I feed my birds the same diet all year, have you tried feeding yours the same diet all year?

in winter my birds eat double the amount of boiled egg than they do in breeding season, 7 days a week boiled eggs and greens, greens twice a day everyday

[dazzab]

first thing I would do is try and find out why the birds are dropping dead

how big is the aviary?
is the aviary covered in plastic?
how many hours of direct sunlight do the birds get?
what type of floor does the aviary have?
how many times a year do you clean the aviary?
how many times a day do you change their water?

Aviary size is 3.8m long 2.5m wide 2m high.
The whole aviary roof is tin, no clear or white sheets in it. This was done under the advice of a local breeder because it isnt very high and thought it would trap in too much heat in summer with extra sunlight coming in. I have contemplated putting some clear sheets in the roof at the front at least but haven't been 100% sure. I have clear sheets on the sides for the first metre to allow extra morning and evening sunlight in.
The aviary faces north and gets sunlight most of the day. I do have a garage next to the aviary on the eastern side which is taller than the aviary itself. This does stop some morning sun but mainly in the summer when the sun is more directly above.
The floor is fully concrete with a layer of straw covering all but the front metre where the water dish is.
I would give the aviary a good clean probably twice a year, once after breeding season and once just before.
Fresh water each day as I have a tap in the aviary.

Thanks for helping werty
Daz

[Shane Gowland]

Are there in spots in the aviary that get damp? Wet straw would only take a couple of days to grow more deadly bacteria and fungus than I even want to think about.

[werty]

first thing I would do is try and find out why the birds are dropping dead

how big is the aviary?
is the aviary covered in plastic?
how many hours of direct sunlight do the birds get?
what type of floor does the aviary have?
how many times a year do you clean the aviary?
how many times a day do you change their water?

Aviary size is 3.8m long 2.5m wide 2m high.
The whole aviary roof is tin, no clear or white sheets in it. This was done under the advice of a local breeder because it isnt very high and thought it would trap in too much heat in summer with extra sunlight coming in. I have contemplated putting some clear sheets in the roof at the front at least but haven't been 100% sure. I have clear sheets on the sides for the first metre to allow extra morning and evening sunlight in.
The aviary faces north and gets sunlight most of the day. I do have a garage next to the aviary on the eastern side which is taller than the aviary itself. This does stop some morning sun but mainly in the summer when the sun is more directly above.
The floor is fully concrete with a layer of straw covering all but the front metre where the water dish is.
I would give the aviary a good clean probably twice a year, once after breeding season and once just before.
Fresh water each day as I have a tap in the aviary.

Thanks for helping werty
Daz

did a search for your name, so I had a look at your aviary pics

the aviary is pretty dark inside, not enough light coming in, I would remove the laser light from the sides of the aviary

I would leave all wire open during the day and only cover it with curtains at night, plenty of breeders will say they only need a few hours of direct sunlight a day, I don't agree with this, I expose my birds to direct sunlight from 6am to 5pm, in winter and summer

second remove the straw, leave the slab uncovered, the drier the better, plenty of breeders will use sand or straw, I don't agree with this, I believe a dry slab is best

If the slab is getting wet, you will need to clean it weekly, I spray mine with vinegar and smash it with the high pressure hose weekly

sunlight coming through plastic is useless, you need the birds hit with direct sunlight, place branches close to wire so it forces the birds into the sun

[E Orix]

To solve your concern you need to look at all possibilities and this should cover aviary location and layout.
Protection and areas for decent roosting, diet and management.
Firstly you will usually lose hen birds quicker and more often than cockbirds because of the pressure put on them during
the breeding season this why I really discourage my birds breeding through the cooler months.
Have a look at the wanted adds and see how many people are after replacement females.
How old are the birds, small birds don't live to a big age and 3 to 4 years will pull most up especially with Finches that will mature quickly.
If a bird will breed at 6months the odds are it's breeding life is over by the time it is 3 years old.
Another mistake people make(in my opinion) is they do catch up replacement. They have a 2 year old pair and drop one so it's replaced most times
by a young bird. The age is out of balance and the next loss will most likely be the bird that is older and the situation repeats itself.
If you need to replace either retire the bird or obtain one of similar age.
I often ask myself why do people use these blinds, is it to keep them warm or protect the birds from wind, if it's the wind or drafts maybe but for warmth
why, birds can stand very cold weather provided you can give them the protection from air movement.
In winter here birds are waiting for the ice to melt so they can have a bath. If the ice is broken for them in they go.
If you can put some decent clumps of brush in the back of the aviary to enable your finches to roost in them it will help greatly. Even if they can roost 50mm
from the tin walls it will help. Tin walls are very cold in the winter and boiling in the summer.
Metal rooves should have sarking(silver type paper) under the metal as it insulates very well.
I dislike concrete floors but that is a personal opinion, but I feel you would be far better of having 50mm+ of sand on the floor, it can be raked over
and I am sure the birds would prefer it especially the Painted's
Diet, unless the birds are breeding and trying to feed a full clutch then a full on diet is not the best type of management in my opinion in colder months.
I may be an odd parallel but it's like eating out all the time, birds have evolved on the feast or famine principal. keep the special feeds for the breeding season
as all those extras(excluding seed heads) simply make the birds too fat. Currently my collection is being fed 2 Millets except where softbills are and
they are not getting live food either. They have one week to go before we move to breeding mode.The last couple of weeks have been hard on them
but non have died of starvation.
Listen to all peoples opinions and then let common sense guide you, the more opinions you get the better it will be for you and your birds.

[dazzab]

Are there in spots in the aviary that get damp? Wet straw would only take a couple of days to grow more deadly bacteria and fungus than I even want to think about.

I have been trying to work out a way to stop water seeping in under the sides in heavy downpours. So yes sometimes it does get a bit damp. Hasn't rained enough to wet the straw for a while now. Getting rid of it might be the way to go.



Thanks werty for the effort and research. I do agree it is a bit dull/dark inside. I considered painting the inside white to brighten it up a bit but that won't help with extra sunlight. I'll have a look this weekend and see what modifications I might be able to do over the next few weeks.

[finchbreeder]

I studied where the morning sun was falling in my avairys and put perches there so the birds could make the most of that morning warm up. We all have good and bad years just keep on learning. And good luck.
LML

[dazzab]

Thanks for all the info and your opinions E Orix.
I feel if there is one thing that is good about my aviary it is it isn't exposed to winds or generates any draughts. Having lived in Wagga for many years I know how cold the winters are where you live. Winter here is nothing like out there. Never had a water dish freeze over anyway.
As for the age of the birds, my Ruddy was probably coming up to her 3rd or 4th season. The star and rfpf had only had one season.
I discouraged the birds from breeding over the cooler months by not giving nesting grasses or feathers and giving the extra foods. I spose the birds still could have attempted to breed as I left all the brush in and the straw could have been used to build nests but I didn't notice anything that meant they were trying.
I do have some sarking left over from house renovations so I'll get that up on the roof.
One question I have about the floor is also related to feeding my regular seed mix. I just have my seed in an open container like a 4l icecream container. Each day I just blow off the husks, stir and top up if needed. With the straw down the husks just fall amongst it. With a concrete or sand floor it wouldn't take long to cover it with husks doing it the way I do. Should I change my seed feeding method or just sweep it all up once a week?

[matcho]

Dazz,

Your set up sounds fine and you obviously try to do the best. I think EOrix nailed it in one foul swoop. Age .I have bought birds that looked OK, one season, gone. They have a short life span, and if they have had a heavy breeding season will shorten their life span. I bought a gould hen from a sale this year, yellow head, looked a bit how you going, she tried everything to breed but did no good. She is a lovely bird but can see now she is too old. Could sell her back to the dealer who I bought her from but will not do that. She can spend her days here. I am in a quandary here myself. I bought 5 1st year hens from a member on this forum. Results weren't great because I put them to older cock birds which are into the 3rd and 4 year. Still did ok,20 nor so on the perch and 2 nests still to come out. The cocks are really good lookers but next year will be no good, I reckon. Do I sell them along with this first years birds so some poor unsuspecting newbie gets the old birds or do I just keep them separate, feed them until they bundy off with old age? If that is the case I need some new aviaries just for old birds. Try and buy 1st year chicks, then you might get 2 or maybe up to 4 years with cocks, hens not so sure. I have been looking for Diamonds to try and go up a level from what I have bred but those I have seen have been older birds.

That is what this hobby is all about, learning.

I wish you the best of luck, but they will die, they are so fragile and don't have the lifespan of a hookbill, but put it this way, if they were in the wild the life span would be shorter and you have done everything to make them comfortable. If you hadn't they wouldn't breed.

Ken.