Gouldian died and now another sick

[Jessica]

Blue back male, green back female both 10 months old had a clutch of 3 eggs. It was their third attempt. The first two failed with no chicks being born.

They were in flight cage with 4 other Gouldians and they had begun to incubate constantly - mostly the hen but he mostly stayed in the nest as well. For two days, they only came out a few times quickly to grab a quick bite and drink then back into the nest (hatching wasn't due for another week). We had just finished a two full-day treatment for air sac mites (March 15-17) using Moxidectin in their water.

Yesterday she came out, landed on the cage floor and began to gasp for breath. She would act like she was coughing but no sound ... just these jerking motions and furiously rubbing her face and beak.

I put her in hospital cage with heat and millet but she died before we could review our 50 pages of notes on what to do - within 2 hours.

We've been trying to figure what is wrong and now today, HE is rubbing his beak, eating constantly, and acting like he is choking!! We think it is something contagious and are researching but remain puzzled. It looks like air sac mites and scaly mites but they were just treated (reviewing videos from those two days, he drank 4 times on the 15th and 3 times on the 16th and his poop looks like milk. He looks 'swollen'. His feathers aren't fluffed but his chest is puffed out and he is sleeping mid-day.

He is jerky-coughing violently and rubbing his beak! He still has a lot of energy and it will be a huge task to catch him. Whatever it is, if it is contagious maybe best to leave him there and treat the entire cage?

Medications we have: Amphotericin-B, Baycox, Matrix, Moxidectin and Ronivet 12%.

[Craig52]

Wow, sounds like intoxication to me. The problem is that you seem to be over dosing your birds for just in case scenario but they don't need constant medication to survive. If a bird becomes ill remove it from the cage place in a small heated cage and observe it carefully and check the droppings or listlessness of the bird. Usually heat fixes most problems when it is set at around 28 degrees Celsius. If bird is looking good after a day or two slowly drop the temperature to ambient temperature over a day or two then you can place the back in the cage with the others.

[Jessica]

Not sure I understand. The only thing this cage has gotten is moxidectin for asm (to be given every four months for two days). And this has been told to us by several breeders as preventative.

[Jessica]

Also I should have mentioned that I have another nest due to hatch now and I was worried about disturbing the parents in catching this male since he remains active. But he caught an illness from his mate who DIED. We're not being overly-medicated or protective at all.

[matcho]

Jessica, You are correct, treatment for ASM is over two days but those 2 days are 10 days apart. That is the method I have used for years and it has never failed me. I use Moxi Plus which is effective on Roundworm, Threadworm, Tapeworm, external parasites (all types of lice/mites) and ASM. Dosage is 10ml to 1 litre for 24 hours. Remove normal water the night before dosage to ensure they drink. Repeat 10 days later. Moxi Plus contains Moxidectin and Praziquantel. This is the only medication I use on a regular basis when symptoms appear. Hope this helps.

[finchbreeder]

Craig is correct in that the symptoms you describe sound like an overdose. - Not saying you are overdosing - Just that the symptoms sound like an overdose.
Matcho is right in the description of what a normal avairy in normal circumstances need. I might be biased - because he does the same as what I do.

[Jessica]

Starting 15 and ending morning of 17 because those are the dates the record was created both start and stop but the treatment was one full day. In fact, mom's note on how to treat seems to be your suggestion word for word as a copy/paste. Mom said the treatment was one FULL day. - the 16th. I misinterpreted because it said 15-17 and we've corrected our notes.

The symptoms are exactly what killed our four owls. The hen was choking and snot was coming out her nose. And why then are no other birds sick - in this cage or the others. We have 16 gouldians. And it was 5 days before the hen died. It just doesn't fit that it is from the Moxidectin.

UPDATE: to clarify, the 16 finches are not in same cage. We have many cages.

[Jessica]

Hey Matcho, seems the directions weren't quoted from you since we use Moxidectin and Baycox instead. The most frustrating thing is many 'top breeders' disagree with each other on what to use. We have a huge bottle of Moxidectin (250ml).

We'll consider switching to Moxi-plus when this runs out but it is quite frustrating. We take all the advice we get and try to piecemeal it together into a logical treatment. Dad reminds us that - one mistake and we could kill over $4,000 worth of finches. I am on verge of giving up on all of it.

Maybe we'll let mom take over everything. She's already done that with our dogs, horses, chickens and goats.

[Jessica]

One other thing, finchbreeder ... we had talked before about whether this hen should be allowed to carry a third clutch (the other two clutch eggs failed). And it depended upon her condition - didn't want to stress her.

But, finchbreeder, she was so excited to try again. It is probable that I misjudged her condition and she is (because of three clutches) has the weakest immune system right now. And maybe I am seeing illness in all our birds now. Mom said it is like hitting a deer with your car ... then for the next two weeks, your mind will see deer flying at your car from all directions.

I simply need to study harder because these finches' lives depend upon it. For this male who appears sick, dad will check him in the morning. I no longer trust my judgement. Thank you, everyone - our family meeting this week will be an interesting one.

[Craig52]

Ok, can you give me the dosage rate of all the medications you mentioned.
By the way Matcho 6ml/ltr of water is the correct dosage rate for moxidecton plus not 10 ml
6ml is way below the toxicity rate for finches 10 ml is still below that but getting up there. Gouldians can't handle 10 ml and above and neither can parrot finches.