Australian Yellow - Breast Colour

[tonywirrell]

I have some Australian Yellow mutations of the Gouldian finch and I just want to get straight on the genetics involved here please.

I know the Australian Yellow is autosomal recessive, but my specific questions are . . .

1. All of my AY birds are white-breasted. I believe this is a feature of the AY mutation and not due to White-Breasted genes?
2. If that's correct, then it would not be possible to have an AY with a purple breast? (Note that I am not talking about the Euro Yellow Back mutation).
3. I don't have any of these, but I assume it would be possible to have a Lilac-Breasted Australian Yellow? (Since autosomal lilac is recessive to purple but dominant to white).

Thanks for helping me.

[finchbreeder]

1. Correct - but they can have the white gene too, depending on what is in their background.
2. Correct.
3. Now there you have me at a loss. That one has always stumped me too.

[Craig52]

Australian yellow are all white breasted but totally different to the European white breast. So if you produce a lilac breasted bird the parents would have purple breasted Euro yellow in them and there is quite a few around at moment that are crossed mutations due to df Euro white breast cocks looking very similar to an Australian yellow cock bird.
Lilac breasted being autosomal recessive should be never seen in Australian yellow even though the mutation is autosomal recessive because the white breast is a total different mutation altogether.
So if you mate a Euro yellow white breast with an Australian yellow white breast you don't get white breasted young you Euro yellow split Australian yellow split Euro white breasted and that starts the cocktail of mixed mutations.
Oh my head is spinning already
Euro yellow is sexlinked dominant so some young will be Euro yellow pending what sex the parent is.

[tonywirrell]

1. Correct - but they can have the white gene too, depending on what is in their background.
2. Correct.
3. Now there you have me at a loss. That one has always stumped me too.

Thank you for taking the time to answer. I have a good understanding of genetics, but I was confused by a recent Facebook post I saw mentioning "Purple Breasted Australian Yellow". Your answer confirms my understanding that this is not possible in an exact sense. It might be split to AY, but that's all.

3. As for my question about Lilac Breast in Australian Yellow, this is also not possible if the bird is a Double-Factor AY. Just like how the white breast of the AY over-rides the purple breast, it would also do the same to the the lilac breast genes, since they are recessive to purple anyway.

Thanks again for your time.

[tonywirrell]

Australian yellow are all white breasted but totally different to the European white breast. So if you produce a lilac breasted bird the parents would have purple breasted Euro yellow in them and there is quite a few around at moment that are crossed mutations due to df Euro white breast cocks looking very similar to an Australian yellow cock bird.
Lilac breasted being autosomal recessive should be never seen in Australian yellow even though the mutation is autosomal recessive because the white breast is a total different mutation altogether.
So if you mate a Euro yellow white breast with an Australian yellow white breast you don't get white breasted young you Euro yellow split Australian yellow split Euro white breasted and that starts the cocktail of mixed mutations.
Oh my head is spinning already
Euro yellow is sexlinked dominant so some young will be Euro yellow pending what sex the parent is.

Thank you..That is very helpful. Really the only way an Australian Yellow can have anything other than a white breast is if it is only split to AY. Once it's a Double Factor AY it has a white breast and all the other traits of an AY.

I have never crossed an AY with a White Breasted Euro Yellow Back. But I can see that you are correct. I will calculate it out in a Punnett Square, but I can see that the AY will most likely be carrying Purple Breasted genes, so when crossed with the recessive White Breast of the YB all the progeny will have purple breasts (split to white) even though both parents were white.

Fascinating stuff I reckon. Thanks again.

[Craig52]

You are welcome mate, I hope no one cross breed Euro yellows with Australian yellow but blue Australian yellow are a different kettle of fish with both mutations being autosomal recessive. Cheers

[finchbreeder]

Sadly back about 15 - 20yrs ago, breeding the 2 types of yellows together was not uncommon.
Due to lack on understanding amongst beginners, that they were different mutations.

[Craig52]

It's still happening now worse than ever with young people taking on the hobby in particular on the east coast of Australia where you don't need licence to keep gouldians.
I'm old and haven't keep gouldians or any other finch species for over 7 years now but can still see what is going on in the finch world and it's not good
especially on social media but some breeders are doing a good job in keeping mutations as they were but more and more mixed are popping up in pet stores and it's very sad.

[finchbreeder]

Seems to be a lot better on this side of the country.
Though the odd mixed group of yellows still shows up in pet shops.
Mind you a lot of the pet shops on this side of the country, no longer keep birds or animals. Just food and beds/kennels.
Apparently they have decided that having to feed birds and animals is not for them, just for their customers.