Dud stud??

[Redwing]

Do you mean temporarily borrowing/swapping/ in that section?...can see lots of potential, especially for breeders with limited space/gene pools and those trying breed mutations.

[natamambo]

Yes, loans rather than transfer of ownerships was my suggestion. Many dog (& other) breeders did it, we loaned our dog out once and got one of the pups as "payment". Requires honesty of course, one reason why closed numbered rings would be the go for rare species or varieties.

[Redwing]

The old experienced finch breeders have probably been doing it for years amongst their mates and snickering up their sleeves at us thinking we may be onto something new.

[E Orix]

Gommer
Thank you for your comment re telling people the condition of birds. when selling them.
It makes my blood boil when I hear"they were no good so I off loaded them to a Dealer".
What these stupid people don't realise or don't care is that some one in our hobby are buying these birds in good faith
and wanting to breed from them.
This non disclosure also involves splits.Because people don't care if a bird is split to a mutation or not it is spoiling the pure strains.
There is nothing more annoying have a clutch of Red Faced Parrot Finches fledge only to discover a sea green turn up.
I do not care if people want to keep mutations but let people know if the chicks they are disposing of could be split.
I will get off my soap box now.

[garymc]

One question/answer which may help in ascertaining as to whether you bought a dud Red, is was there many male stars to choose from or was the choice limited to one ore two birds. I would think that if the dealer had say 10 (just picking a number) of the one species then it would be highly unlikely that all were duds - maybe you got lucky or unlucky in this case. If there was only the one then the chances of an old bird in my opinion would be greatly increase.

There are quite a number, and I am talking nationwide, of finch breeders located in remote areas who breed 100's of birds each year and don't have the inclination to attend sales etc and would rather just send of their boxes of birds off the dealers. Orix - where do all you birds go? These are predominatlely good birds. So in defence on dealers not all their stock are burnt out has beens. Yes it is preferable to by from a reputable breeder where it may be possible to see the stock and setup first hand, but I have sourced too many a good bird from birds shops and the like to just dismiss them as a source for new birds.

[Redwing]

There were a few reds but only one yellow Gary.... in retrospect it may have been that time of year when there aren't many around and I particularly wanted yellow so will never know.

[dano_68]

Yes, loans rather than transfer of ownerships was my suggestion. Many dog (& other) breeders did it, we loaned our dog out once and got one of the pups as "payment". Requires honesty of course, one reason why closed numbered rings would be the go for rare species or varieties.

Hi guys,

While I understand what you are trying to achieve is a good idea in theory, I seriously doubt it would be viable.

Firstly I will say that there are indeed many breeders who will swap birds pre-season, but this is usually to mix up the bloodlines. Once swapped, they stay swapped.

Some of the problems I see with “leasing out” a cock/hen is:

• 1. Finches are not as robust as dogs!

• 2. Stress of continually being moved from aviary to aviary may put some birds off breeding altogther

• 3. Many species require bonding time and once they have breed it would be very hard to break the pair up and start again. In fact some species do not take new mates so readily

• 4. Diseases – this could end up being the cause of a new black plague type scenario if some breeders do not follow strict quarantine, hygiene and aviary maintenance. Never expect other breeders to be at your level of expectation!

I am not trying to rain on your parade but I think you need to explore the pros and cons of anything before you commit to it.

Perhaps you guys can come up with a viable way of achieving this and if so, I would love to hear all about it!

[flap]

Dano - hadn't thought of the frailty of birds and the stress of changing aviaries etc. The issue of quarantine and spread of viruses etc on the other hand did cross my mind. I would be interested in other experienced breeders' views on this temporary swap...

[desertbirds]

.I once blamed a dealer for selling me old blue caps,6 nests with no fertile eggs and nearly gave up.The next nest produced 6 young.Might sound silly but have a look at the condition of the birds and the others they are housed with (if any).Does your bird have a good diet with plenty of fresh seed heads and fresh water daily.Are his toe nails overgrown ? Is another species knocking him off the hen when hes not quite finished doing his thing ? Is there a good solid perch for them to mate.Any mice in the aviary disturbing them at night,another species kicking them out of their breeding space.? Because there are other species in the aviary breeding doesnt mean that they all will.You may well just have a dud but sometimes its just something simple thats not quite right.

[Redwing]

Thanks Desertbirds will check his toenails in the morning but can definately give ticks to all your other really valid points. Green seeds, sprouted seeds, tonic mix, fresh leafy greens daily etc. Also aviary inhabitants really relaxed, no-one getting chased from perches, nesting sites, feed stations. Can see your point though as sometimes it's attention to the small details that we need to stand back and have a really good look at. Like continuous quality improvement principles...