Overseas gouldians and people forstering

[BENSONSAN]

Ok ive been looking at lotsa overseas forums etc and i know lotsa people overseas use bengos for forsering but is it that common over there? Why do they have so much nest tossing? Every gouldian ive had so far has been nothing more then a excellant parent!

Most of us aussies do nest inspections sometimes aswell and never have dramas. i just find it hard to believe the problems so rife over there.
How bad is imprinting???

Once again i feel lucky to be aussie.

Ben

[Jayburd]

perhaps it's because someone who fostered lost of gouldians made a lot of young and flooded the market, thus the birds are losing the natural parenting instinct?

[GregH]

Well here in the Philippines everyone fosters but as has been said - I don't know why. Here they don't want to loose any birds and establishing a strain that are good parents can take time and since it's an evolutionary process a lot of birds exit the gene-pool during the process. Since they don't see past the current nest such deaths seem wasteful if you don't look at the big picture. If you're interested to see what the British perspective is have a read of Mike Fidler's experience in the UK when he changed from fostering to self-rearing.

[Matt]

I don't understand it either. I admit that I sometimes shuffle eggs around from one nest to another but they are always raised by gouldians. I don't see the point in using begalese, in my experience a good pair of goulds will raise at least as many as bengalese. I hear of people using bengos to rear the blue mutations just to get numbers on the perch but if they have enough $$ to have the blues, why not rear them under normal gouldians?

[jusdeb]

Humans ( some if not most ) feel the need to CONTROL everything around them ... We are much more laid back than the overseas bird keepers ( from my readings of O/ Seas bird keeping forums ).

[dano_68]

Actually Jay got it just about right. In the late 1800's lots of Gouldians (and other Aussie finches) and were sent but boat to Europe. Most died on the way due to the shocking conditions they were kept in. Those that survived the boat trip usually died of exposure once they landed. Warm weather birds in a European winter do not go well together. So the very few (out of thousands trapped!!!! ) that made it to private breeders were treated like gold. They weren't allowed to breed themselves because they want to make sure every egg turned into an adult bird. Two reasons for this - greed and genuine breeders wanting to have Gouldians freely available. So with all the intense breeding Gouldians lost their natural instincts altogether in about 10 years of captive breeding in Europe.

That is why the first major mutations came out of Europe. Even to this day they have unique Gouldian mutations not available elsewhere.

Anyway, I still personally think most people do it for greed or they just have genetically weak and sick birds (blue Gouldians anyone?) that are incapable of raising chicks themselves!

For the record Ben, myself and every other Gouldian breeder up here do not use foster parents for our Goulds. The only times foster parents are used is for rare birds like Peter's Twinspots or Green Strawberries (they use OB's to foster them).

[monotwine]

For the record Ben, myself and every other Gouldian breeder up here does not use foster parents for our Goulds. The only times foster parents are used is for rare birds like Peter's Twinspots or Green Strawberries (they use OB's to foster them).

Ok Dano, don't take this as a personal attack of any sort I am just playing devils advocate. Why is it ok to use fosters on rare species? Surely then they too will be bred to be deficient in breeding themselves? Then they are just as good as lost?

Just to mention imprinting: Many say that if the young are moved across at an early stage to the same species they are ok, but I have a Double bar that was bought from a breeder that also does do fostering and I am assuming she was fostered. She will sit above my Bengalese cage for days on end and ignores the DB's. She does not want to breed and shows no interest in any of the 6 cock birds that she has to choose from. She definitly has an affinity for the Bengalese (even though they are all hens). She prefers their company. I never had Bengalese before and have one pair of hens for emergency backup, the DB was willing to breed and hang out with the others before the Bengalese arrived.

[dano_68]

Ok Dano, don't take this as a personal attack of any sort I am just playing devils advocate. Why is it ok to use fosters on rare species? Surely then they too will be bred to be deficient in breeding themselves? Then they are just as good as lost?

Hi mono. Firstly, I am not saying it is ok to use foster parents for rare birds - I was just stating what happens. They do it because they are desperate to save the dwindling numbers and as a last resort usually. But you are right, when it gets to that stage you are only prolonging the inevitable. IMO, there is no need to foster healthy, normal colour Gouldians in Australia. But normally they will release the young birds the minute they are independent into a holding cage with other Adult birds of the same species. They will leave them here until they colour up (4 months usually).

As for your DB - yes a good example of imprinting. Sounds like they did not isolate it at the critical time. Zebra finches are also easily brainwashed and both species are aligned (ie. Taeniopygia). They would be better of fostering under Zebs.

BTW, the best foster birds EVER are Javan Munias (Lonchura leucogastroides). Much better than Bengalese and they are not carriers of cochlosoma like Bengalese!

In your case I would isolate your DB hen with 1 cock bird DB in a separate cage away from the Bengalese for at least 6 weeks. I would put them on an austerity diet for 2 weeks (plain seed - 50/50 red & white millet + calcium mix in a separate dish), introduce slowly high protein & green foods over the next 2 weeks (egg food with no boiled egg added, plain Madeira cake, fresh grass seeds ever other day), then ramp up to a full breeding diet over the final 2 weeks (add boiled egg, cake, fresh seed or spouted seed and frozen vegy mix, etc every day). They should be bonded and ready to nest by now so introduce them back into the main aviary. I would also use this time to worm them (in first week, follow up 2 weeks later).

PS. I am not sure why you thought I would be offended?? lol - It is a very valid question!

[monotwine]

PS. I am not sure why you thought I would be offended?? lol - It is a very valid question!

Just wanted to make sure I was not stepping on anyones toes unintentionally. Its a public forum and I honestly don't know most well enough to gague what would upset them.
Just want to keep the peace, but thanks for the explanation.

Thank you very much for the tips re the DB.

[jusdeb]

Monotwine , chuck a spanner in the works anytime , its gets people thinking and as I have said before we are all different with different opinions . If it upsets anyone then they will get over it .
Sheesh if I had a dollar for everytime Ive been pounced on for having an opinion Id be rich and yes a few of them have been in here ...OPEN MINDS people is how we learn .