This is directed to Myzomela or anyone else who has an opinion.
I have used Vircon S for several years but I still get two contrasting opinions.
Most say it is safe and a great product to put in the water of my soaked seed, yet a couple of pretty smart people, one who has worked in the Chemical Industry
has warned me off it.
I have no problems with it as a sanitiser and it does not seem to have any bad side effects. What I am asking is for peoples opinion on if it has any residule effect or build up and retained in the birds vital organs or body in general over time.
Vircon S
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jusdeb
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Very timely post for me as I have been soaking seed since getting birds and have never used an additive also have never had a bad batch . I let my nose and taste buds tell me the seeds are OK .
Ive just bought some multicleanse and I gotta say Im hesitant to use it . Now to point out I do small batches and my seeds sprout very quickly , Im home all day to rinse the seed each time Im in the kitchen and it is rarely stored in the fridge more than 2 days .
Look forward to other peoples replies . Oh and last time I said I tasted the seeds before giving them to the birds I was poked at by a couple of people , yes I taste it and its no different to eating a 3 bean salad or alfalfa sprouts .
Ive just bought some multicleanse and I gotta say Im hesitant to use it . Now to point out I do small batches and my seeds sprout very quickly , Im home all day to rinse the seed each time Im in the kitchen and it is rarely stored in the fridge more than 2 days .
Look forward to other peoples replies . Oh and last time I said I tasted the seeds before giving them to the birds I was poked at by a couple of people , yes I taste it and its no different to eating a 3 bean salad or alfalfa sprouts .
Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue.
David Brent
David Brent
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VR1Ton
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- Location: Far Nth Coast NSW
If you try & post at the same time someone else is or has since you started your post, it will not put your post streight on, but will give you another option to post your reply as well as showing the other reply 'blocking' yours, had this happen a couple of times before I figured it out.
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Fincho162
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Many moons ago a friend in England sent me a load of material on the "damage" done by over-use of Virkon-S. To be honest they didn't just soak seed in it and the problems were mainly in Gouldians.
I don't use it but if I did I would treat it like we do chlorhexidine based products for seed soaking - ensure that it is thorougly washed out when seed is cleaned - ALWAYS!!
Multiclens is fine for our seed soaking needs but do know of others that use it in the water bowl on a regular basis.....what damage they are doing long term god only knows as, like dosing with anti-biotics, it is not just going to clear "bad" items from the birds system but strip all of them..........if that makes sense!!!
Maybe if you contact some of those holistic finch people (yes, I'm serious -as some of their use of natural seeds and extracts is excellent and Truis Alers - wife of the late John Alers - used all manner of herbs and grasses with their finches and their prowess as finch breeders was second to none!!) you might obtain some interesting points of view on Virkon-S.
Happy hunting!!
I don't use it but if I did I would treat it like we do chlorhexidine based products for seed soaking - ensure that it is thorougly washed out when seed is cleaned - ALWAYS!!
Multiclens is fine for our seed soaking needs but do know of others that use it in the water bowl on a regular basis.....what damage they are doing long term god only knows as, like dosing with anti-biotics, it is not just going to clear "bad" items from the birds system but strip all of them..........if that makes sense!!!
Maybe if you contact some of those holistic finch people (yes, I'm serious -as some of their use of natural seeds and extracts is excellent and Truis Alers - wife of the late John Alers - used all manner of herbs and grasses with their finches and their prowess as finch breeders was second to none!!) you might obtain some interesting points of view on Virkon-S.
Happy hunting!!
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Myzomela
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- Location: Melbourne Vic
Okay- the crux of my answer was:
1) It's not registered for use in-water or in-food as far as I'm aware
2) The only study I know of involved comparing growth rates in broiler chickens. The study only went for 2 months(?), and concluded that chickens with virkon-treated water had greater weight gains than those given plain water. However, when you look at the figures, there is NO statistical support for this.
3) Finches have a much faster metabolism and shorter generation time than chickens. Although there is NO evidence that Virkon-S has caused any problems when used for soaked seed or in-water, I worry that the consequences may not show up for several generations- eg as infertility or immunosuppression
4) I always worry when a product kills all viruses, bacteria and fungi but is still totally safe!!! Yeah, right!- I think your friend is right to advise caution.
Mike F is a proponent because its anti-fungal properties are much greater than those of bleach or chlorhexidine (Aviclense or multicleanse)- the alternative products- and I'm sure he wouldn't use anything that would jeopardise his birds.
The truth is we don't know what effect, if any, it has on our birds when used in this way.
It is however an excellent disinfectant and the product of choice used by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service for exotic disease outbreaks.
However, no chemical is a substitute for clean water and good hygiene practices.
The problem is that soaked seed is notorious for spoiling and being a source of bacterial or fungal infections or their toxins.
Using clean seed and water is important and as Deb suggests use your nose, but this is not always enough- that's why many breeders resort to using chemicals.
1) It's not registered for use in-water or in-food as far as I'm aware
2) The only study I know of involved comparing growth rates in broiler chickens. The study only went for 2 months(?), and concluded that chickens with virkon-treated water had greater weight gains than those given plain water. However, when you look at the figures, there is NO statistical support for this.
3) Finches have a much faster metabolism and shorter generation time than chickens. Although there is NO evidence that Virkon-S has caused any problems when used for soaked seed or in-water, I worry that the consequences may not show up for several generations- eg as infertility or immunosuppression
4) I always worry when a product kills all viruses, bacteria and fungi but is still totally safe!!! Yeah, right!- I think your friend is right to advise caution.
Mike F is a proponent because its anti-fungal properties are much greater than those of bleach or chlorhexidine (Aviclense or multicleanse)- the alternative products- and I'm sure he wouldn't use anything that would jeopardise his birds.
The truth is we don't know what effect, if any, it has on our birds when used in this way.
It is however an excellent disinfectant and the product of choice used by the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service for exotic disease outbreaks.
However, no chemical is a substitute for clean water and good hygiene practices.
The problem is that soaked seed is notorious for spoiling and being a source of bacterial or fungal infections or their toxins.
Using clean seed and water is important and as Deb suggests use your nose, but this is not always enough- that's why many breeders resort to using chemicals.
Research; evaluate;observe;act
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jusdeb
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- Joined: 12 Mar 2009, 19:43
- Location: Dubbo, NSW
- Location: Western Plains NSW
This has been my only water additive in 2 years ...it keeps water fresh in summer as well as the others mentioned ...
http://www.aviannetwork.com/articles/acvinthaviary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalbird.com/mcwatters/acv_for_birds.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.aviannetwork.com/articles/acvinthaviary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.naturalbird.com/mcwatters/acv_for_birds.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue.
David Brent
David Brent
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Myzomela
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Thanks VR1Ton !!VR1Ton wrote:If you try & post at the same time someone else is or has since you started your post, it will not put your post streight on, but will give you another option to post your reply as well as showing the other reply 'blocking' yours, had this happen a couple of times before I figured it out.
Research; evaluate;observe;act