Vircon S

[GregH]

Here's what Dupont have to say about their Virkon S

The MSDS doesmention that ingestion can cause death and that it is corrosive:
"SECTION 5 - HEALTH - HAZARD DATA
Acute Dermal Toxicity:
Powder: LD50 greater than 2.0g/kg in rabbits.
Acute Oral Toxicity:
Powder: LD50 of 1.70g/kg in male rats and 1.16g/kg in female rats.
Dilution: LD5 of 4123 mg/kg in male and female rats. This is considered to be
slightly toxic (LD5 500-5000mg/kg).
Acute Inhalation Toxicity:
Powder: LC50 greater than 6.147mg/l of air over 4 hours in male and female
rats.
Dilution: LC50 @ 4 hour exposure is greater than 6 mg/l (by analytical determination).
Hazards To Humans and Domestic Animals - Danger, powder is
corrosive. Causes skin burns and irreversible eye damage. Harmful if
swallowed, absorbed through skin or inhaled. Do not get in eyes, on skin,
or on clothing. Wear protective clothing and rubber gloves. Avoid
breathing dust. Wear goggles, face shield or safety glasses. Wash
thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated
clothing and wash before reuse. Corrosive statement refers to powder
only, not in –use solution."

The active ingredient is Potassium peroxymonosulfate and there does seem to be some question marks over it's safety to reproductive health but in general it's much safer than Salmonella toxin, Aspergellins and all the other things you're trying to prevent.

[Buzzard-1]

it's much safer than Slamonella toxin, Aspergellins and all the other things you're tyrying to prevent.

Thanks Greg, That's what I'm talking about. I use it during the soaking period while germination is happening, then wash seed in fresh water before stopping the germination. The only thing I will change is I now will rinse more thoroughly thanks to this thread

[nirep]

This has been my only water additive in 2 years ...it keeps water fresh in summer as well as the others mentioned ...

http://www.aviannetwork.com/articles/acvinthaviary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.naturalbird.com/mcwatters/acv_for_birds.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nice links jusdeb here is a you tube one using ACV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K93AEder ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Myzomela]

I posted a reply earlier but it must have been one of those "simultaneous posts" and didn't resend it again!!

Anyway, what I said was..

Guess it comes under the same heading as immunizing children , antibiotic over use and fluoridation of water supplies ...all controversial .
HOWEVER it does make one think doesn't it . Personal choice until someone can come up with proof positive of the effects be it positive or negative .

The only difference is that immunizing children, in-water fluoridation and over use of antibiotics all have a huge body of research behind them. This is not the case for using these products in water/food for birds.

maybe even go back to bleach for sprouting seed?..........Any thoughts on this?.............

I also used bleach years ago- the ammonia evaporates to leave a salt which is easily washed off with rinsing. Is bleach any safer- the answer is no one really knows.The reason I believe that Mike F started using Virkon was that it was more effective at preventing fungal growth than bleach is. Chlorhexidine, which is registered for use in-water with birds, has moderate antibacterial/antiyeast properties but is totally ineffective at preventing some of the really nasty bacteria which can contaminate wet/spoilt food such as Pseudomonas.

So as long as everyone understands the facts involved and the limitations of our knowledge with these products in birds to date, then people can chose whichever product works best for them.

As Greg and Buzzard have said, using a chemical wisely with soaked seed prevents many more problems than not using it does.

But just remember, no chemical is a substitute for for good hygiene practices ie use clean fresh seed to start with, clean water for soaking and rinse the soaked/sprouted seed regularly during the process. Make sure to clean soaking containers and sieves with dtergent +/- disinfectant after every batch and try to totally dry out equipment after each batch.

[jusdeb]

Re research into vaccinating children , we only know what the Govt wants us to know . Most children vaccinated between 1961 and 1965 were given vaccine grown on cells from monkey kidneys .

There is a virus that can be passed from monkeys to humans from these batches that resembles Asbestosis , has the same incuabation time and symptoms .

Bet the general population didn't know about that one !

My point ...they might do the research but they dont give the full story much like the makers of any chemicals ....

[jusdeb]

Thanks for the you tube link Nirep

[Myzomela]

Hi Deb,

My point is that not all research is government or pharmaceutical-company funded. There is plenty of independent research which analyses these things and is available for all to analyse, especially via the internet. Granted some are retrospective- when it's too late in some cases - & I don't doubt the power of the almighty dollar in big business. But it is up to us to critically evaluate this information.

Far more people have been saved by vaccination than have been harmed. In fact the resurgence of some "old-time" diseases such as whooping cough and tuberculosis has been due to the declining rate of vaccination for these diseases.

I don't blindly trust any drug company's claims, and everyone has the right to chose whether they use a particular product or not.

[jusdeb]

Agreed people have to be aware ...do research of their own and not trust a product on the say so of the products PR raps.

Oh and I am pro childhood immunisation also ... bugger going back to the dark days before children were immunised.

[iaos]

rinse the soaked/sprouted seed regularly during the process

I thought it was best when using virkon S not to rinse the seed in the process?

I freezer my chitted seed. I find that the seed chits within about 24hrs and its dry enough to stick straight in the freezer.

As for i'll effects, I haven't been using it/breeding finches long enough to come to any conclusions.

[GregH]

The active component has probably be been exhaused after 24h during the germination process so rinsing with sterile water shouldn't be a problem. The problem is not many people have sterile water supplies.

After trying Fidler's method for 8 month I have decided that I will keep on doing it but I will also feed my previous method - 3 day old sprouts too. My breeding results were better prior to adopting the Fidler method as my sole method of suppling sprouted seed. I can not get my birds to eat greens except for the 3 day old sprouts and I think this is what is missing in their diet and decreasing thir breeding performance at present. I guess I'll know in couple of months if this pays off.