Worming Young Gouldians

[nosaj76]

Hey Guys,

I have a mixed aviary of Gouldians, Double Bars, and Star Finches One pair of my Common Black Gouldians have fledged 4 young and are back on the nest again as well as another pair of Common Red Gouldians. The question I want to ask is, is it OK to treat my current stock as well as the young for worms and air sac mites as I haven't done it in a long time

[Jayburd]

some wormers can affect gouldians, especially young ones.
I'd say maybe either leave all the birds until the young have coloured up, or separate all birds from the ones with young and worm them...

[E Orix]

Before you worm your birds are you sure your birds HAVE!!!!!! worms, or are you thinking about worming them because
other people say you should.
One should not medicate any bird unless they are sure the medication is required.
No one has ever been able to show me a drug that only kills the bad bugs and leaves the needed one alone.
In a few weeks prior to the convention I will be sitting down with some very smart breeders from here and overseas,
during that time I will ask the questions about worming.
Maybe they will convince me then that the threat is worth the risk of medication!!!!!

[Jayburd]

but by the time a bird shows symptoms of worms or coccidiosis there's a chance it would already be too late to save it, correct?
and as I'm sure you'll realise, lookin at poop it's very difficult to determine which bird is affected in an aviary situation

[wagga]

Worming young uncoloured gouldians! IMO unless you are sure they have worms etc. then medicate remembering that some medications can be near lethal to them. I spoken to a avian vet on this very subject. Their opinion is certain meds have a narrow margin of safety between correct dose and lethal dose. I have friends that have wormed 100s of juvenile gouldians with no problems, then one time they have heavy losses. Most of the meds we use are designed for larger and heavy animals which helps with the safety margin percentages.
googled looking for info that better explains what I am trying to say. This info is from another well known avian vet in Qld I hope it helps in your decision. http://www.geckodan.com/vet%20viewpoint%207.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chose is yours BUT I am glad you asked first.

[Myzomela]

Interesting discussion guys!!

EOrix is right to question the unnecessary use of medications - a topic I've raised before.

The problem is knowing whether you have a problem, or just wanting to make sure that one doesn't develop.

Most birdkeepers don't routinely check their birds' droppings for internal parasites with a microscope- this would give you a much better idea as to whether you need to medicate your birds. However, some parasites such as tapeworms can be difficult to diagnose in droppings sometimes.

No one has ever been able to show me a drug that only kills the bad bugs and leaves the needed one alone.

I don't necessarily agree with this statement. It is true of broad spectrum antibiotics, but not of wormers since they kill worms- not bacteria- and I don't know of any good worms in birds. It's more that some products have a narrow safety margin and that's why they cause problems. Some of the better wormers rarely cause problems, but you can never be 100% sure. Partly because different individual animals will react differently to a drug- just as people do. And partly because we mass dose birds through the drinking water in many cases which is very hit and miss and is very weather dependant.
Instead we should weigh each individual bird and give the correct dose by crop gavage. Yes, most will say "too hard"
In the end everyone has to weigh up what is worse- the problem or the medication.

And this all comes back to understanding the parasite's life cycle, how your housing and management makes your birds susceptible or protects them, and using quarantine measures to stop parasites from coming into a collection in the first place.

[Buzzard-1]

And this all comes back to understanding the parasite's life cycle,

If you are not going to do the follow up worming DON'T worm at all you will grow a strain of resistant worms sell your birds on and cause the rest of us problems. As said before worm out your birds only if they have worms not because your neighbour did.

[jusdeb]

Gosh yes agreed totally ....biggest no no especially with newbie bird keepers is reaching for the worm meds whenever a new bird is acquired or worse whenever a bird looks sick .

Diagnoses before medication ...bloody hard I know but if not sure then leave well enough alone ....

I still do a 3 monthly ( depending on weather , would rather not worm in the heat of summer ) worm out , any birds that come along in between wait till the rest are done .

This is probably overkill also but gives me peace of mind.

Very interesting topic and look forward to Eorix discussions with other breeders ( feedback ).

And any opinions that forumers have as well.

[gomer]

Personally I try to worm three too four times a year.And eveything gets a dose anytime of the year, when the conditions are right to worm.I rarely have a loss,And if I do it is indiscriminate of age.But that is my personal experience in my climate,with my worming mixtures.

[Myzomela]

....biggest no no especially with newbie bird keepers is reaching for the worm meds whenever a new bird is acquired

Actually, Deb, this is EXACTLY the time you should worm your birds, then again 2 weeks later BEFORE you introduce them into your collection. ie whilst they are still in quarantine.

The point is to stop introduction of the problem into your aviary in the first place. If your aviary design is right then hopefully you won't have to carry out worming on an ongoing preventative basis.

If however your aviary is well established but your parasite control is haphazard, then you probably will have to resort to routine, ongoing preventative worming.