Millet

[Myzomela]

I found Mike's article interesting but do not agree with several points.

Mainly, he contends that too much calcium means that the the calcium:phosphorus ratio is out of balance meaning that the calcium can't be absorbed properly.

The problem with his argument is that most seeds, which are the basis of every finch's diet, have far more phosphorus than calcium. That is why you never see a calcium supplement with added phosphorus on the market, including those manufactured by avian vets such as Tony Gestier ( Vetafarm), Colin Walker or Rob Marshall. The only powdered supplement with added phosphorus is DCP powder which is made for domestic animals ( not on seed diets!!)

Of course, you shouldn't over supplement with any nutrient, including calcium and vitamin D3 ( which is essential for calcium absorption).

Personally, I think oversupplementing with vitamin D3 is far more dangerous than overdosing with calcium. Being a fat-soluble vitamin it is stored in the liver so overdosing will quickly lead to toxicity. If you overdose with calcium, but have low vitamin D3 levels, then most of the calcium will not be absorbed anyway. Most toxicities occur from overdoing the calcium and having normal to high levels of vitamin D3.

So I would agree that having readily avaialble soluble grit, cuttlebone etc are very important. Liquid calcium supplements are valuable where you suspect the birds are not eating their grit/cuttlebone or have not had access to these for several weeks before egg laying. In these situations liquid calcium supplements added to soft foods are very useful.
The effectiveness of liquid calcium supplements is less when placed in water in my experience.

As stated previously, there is more to egg binding than just calcium and vitamin D3. Laying hens need a good supply of trace minerals ( including magnesium and manganese), essential fatty acids ( omega 3 & 6) and a good amino acid profile in their diet. Many finch breeders supply this diet daily, often without realising it.

[Myzomela]

Another issue with grit is that some birdkeepers don't keep it fresh.
Ever noticed that when you add fresh grit to the grit container the birds really seem to go for it, even when there was "old" grit in the container?

It pays to break up any "crust" that forms over your grit, and to replace or top it up regularly, particularly before and during breeding.

[nathan morley]

Thanks mate u really know you're stuff. Will use you advice thanks.

[BENSONSAN]

I use pvm powder myzo its top top stuff from pigeonco. And your rite on overdosing at least with this they can control it themselves. They love the stuff.

[nathan morley]

What's PVM powder ?

[Tintola]

My guess would be Pigeon Vitamin and Mineral powder????????? Maybe

[jusdeb]

Is that the pink powder that is used in Biocal ?

[VR1Ton]

Yep, Biocal cames in 2 forms, with & without PVM.

[jusdeb]

So I could add the PVM to my usual grit mix then ?

Would it be the same as or similar to Biocal then ?

[VR1Ton]

If its the pink one, you won't need to (already in it). The other (origional) Biocal is white, & has not extra mineral powder added.