Collector or Breeder

[GregH]

Please induge me while I tell you about a documentary I watched on endangered species last night that highlighted the plight of the macaws. Apparently 2/3 of the species are now extinct as they were endemic to small Caribbean islands and the early traders quickly took them to extinction as they were trapped as living ornaments without regard to safeguarding their line or even their habitat. This attracted my attention and sympathy by showing these magnificent birds kept in small, filthy cages with a poor diet and little environmental enrichment which were responsible for various neuroses or metabolic disorders. Then it went onto breeding and highlighted the evils of captive breeding in the bird-farms in Mexico and the United States which churn out hundreds of thousands of parrots each ear that enter the market for cute hand-fed and tame baby birds whose fate is to die, end up as sick or insane, be discarded or out-live their owner and then burden a new unwitting owner.

The basic premise was that all bird keeping is bad and by extension we need to all join PETA and become vegetarians. There was no mention of responsible aviculture other than it provided the ingredients for the far larger trade that goes on for the benefits of irresponsible, ignorant or just plain evil keepers. The only breeding programs that have any merit are those that whose sole purpose is to release birds back into the wild. Their job done, these programs presumably folds, the facilities are sold off and the staff move onto real jobs. All very simplistic and very one sided.

Like any form of husbandry or creative skill sustainable aviculture is something that has to be practiced you can’t write it up in a book and then apply it as the commitment needed comes for the individual. It doesn’t matter if on average a bird drinks 10mL of water per day if the dish is dry and schedule says that it doesn’t need filling for two more days even if you give it 10 litres you won’t resurrect it. The success of Australian aviculture has come about because a sizable proportion if not the majority of practioners have to be able to maintain diverse germ-lines over generations and not even governments have the resources to do this. When we start off we are all keepers and then move not to become owners but to become stewards. That for me this is the mark of success but it is something that you can’t get out of a book and you can’t do it by yourself. I was upset by the documentary that showed the obsessive, compulsive, acquisitive and cruel nature of irresponsible side of bird keeping but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t another side to the story or that keepers are inferior to breeders. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and for me the captive stewardship of a species can be done responsibly and without cruelty and that’s what we should all aim to do.
Geting back on topic. I am a breeder of Gouldians, cut-throats, Java sparrows and zebras. Break even on Stars and a consumer of monomorphic species: double bars, Hecks, diamond sparrows and munias. I'd like to think it was a critical mass issue but it seems to be more than that but I'm learning.

[E Orix]

I class myself as a breeder but still learning.
What is my opinion of a breeder,
A breeder enables his birds to breed freely generation after generation.Each season the aim is excess for the year to cover expansion,losses,birds getting too old to breed and having an excess to put onto the market.
Without those birds in excess you wouldn't have a supply and no hobby.
Sadly we have consumers of birds and breeders trying to satisfy the market.
The big danger in my mind is what I call cheque book collectors, people willing to spend big money on the rare species just to say they have them and have no skill or intention of breeding them.The birds are lost and in alot of cases unable to be replaced or placed into a breeding progam.
This is a good topic Weaver

[maz]

I think the term breeder has so many ramifications and there are good breeders and bad....same as in every species...dogs, cats, rats etc etc....I think the term we need to think about is responsible/reputable versus just breeder.... I plan on breeding the finchs I buy, I am currently breeding my budgies and cockatiels, but at this stage it's early days for me first year with all of them (even though I've bred budgies and zebras before) I'm a hobby breeder and wont ever really have the room or time to be much more but I will be responsible with what I breed, not overbreed, make sure I start with good stock etc etc I don't think scale or time/number of generations should be a guage of whether you can call your self a breeder or not, people will call themselves breeders if they only have one clutch a year and some people will breed huge numbers but do it badly, it's more a matter of doing the best for the birds on whatever scale you do it.

[Myzomela]

Keeping it simple, I think a breeder is someone who sets out to breed birds and produces more than he loses.
A collector is someone who just houses birds. Breeding is secondary or unintentional.
Now as others have said, there is a big difference between good breeders, average breeders and poor breeders, but this is a different topic.

And I agree Weaver- collectors are the death nell of species which are on the brink-"have money...lack skills/intent"

[gomer]

As my signature says, keeper of Australian grass finches. But what I keep I do my best to breed. Maybe I am a collector aswel as i have most of the Aussies. But a few I havent got and could get any time I want. But what I keep I keep a minimum amount of three pair. So I suppose keeper breeder and a collector to a small degree. Although I want keep anything without an intention of breeding.

[Tiaris]

Finches are my lifelong interest, but if I didn't breed them I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in keeping them in captivity. I personally enjoy breeding finches much more than just watching them in a non-breeding situation. The greatest thrill I get from my birds is the pleasant surprise of seeing a healthy clutch of young birds fledge. I don't care if they are a common species which have bred for me many times or a more challenging rarity which is relatively new to my collection. By watching our birds intently at all stages of the breeding cycle we can continue to learn and understand much more about them - even the most domesticated species which we may think we have already figured out. By setting out with the over-riding intention of breeding a species we can learn far more about them by carefully observing their full range of behaviours, preferences and do so whilst allowing us to enjoy their beauty. I also regard consistent breeding success as an excellent indicator that we are providing an appropriate standard of care for those species which we can breed regularly.

[COUNTRY CAPITAL]

My take on it is the birds themselves will indicate to you what catagory you fit into.
happy, healthy, content birds will reward you with breeder status in my view.
I have witnessed a couple of experienced breeders setups and their results speak for themselves.
Try to be consistent....i shake my head when some say that they provide the extra's(greens,seeding heads etc) once or twice a week only ....like treats for a cocky in a cage.How that approach is supposed to satisfy feeding parent birds is beyond me.At the other end of the spectrum i know of one breeder that feeds out live food every 2 hours during the breeding season!!
I think i need to "fockos" abit more to become a true breeder of finches but "fanatic" or "tragic" fits better so far.

[SamDavis]

My intention is to be breeder, but unfortunately there are some species where I feel like a collector! As Tiaris says, it's breeding them that's the primary challenge/interest for me. For some species it's taken me years, but if it was easy then I doubt I'd be as interested. And once I get a species going then I start looking for a new and more challenging species. Red Siskins are this year's challenge.

[djb78]

My definition of a breeder and collector would be that a breeder tries to everything they can to produce young from their birds were as a collector will keep there birds for more a show and tell but have no intention to produce offspring from their birds. As mentioned before a breeder will have many levels ranging from beginner through to experienced. There are also many who wish to keep this as a hobby and many who is looking to make money so there is another question. Hobbyist, fancier, keeper are all other names that people wish to use but in the end, the most important matter is striving to keep and breedbirds in a manner that will produce strong and healthy birds to help keep birds around for future generations to enjoy this past time like just about everybody else on this forum. What do I class myself as I would say a sucker as I like all birds and I do try to breed all the birds I have some with great success and others not so great, but always looking at what I can do different to help with my breeding success and health and wellbeing for all my feathered friends.

[BENSONSAN]

I would like to think I'm a breeder. I try my best to breed everything I own. I love seeing young fledge and like tiaris I get so much enjoyment even when it's something like my painteds breeding again. Even when ive bred plenty before.

But I have so much more to learn and feel like a keeper. I can only try. Like my redbrows ...I don't feel like a breeder with them. But am more then happy to keep them. I won't stop trying tho! I defiantly am no master and love learning more a reading more. Got a long way to go