Being elbow deep in the back end of a canary would pose a challenge for starters.
Seriously though, most of the species you mention are very domesticated (especially canaries) so the extreme technical difficulties and costs would render it totally unviable. Surely most if not all of these species could be encouraged to do the wild thing with appropriate diet and conditions at the appropriate season.
Artificial Insemination
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Diane
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- Posts: 7402
- Joined: 05 Apr 2009, 14:23
- Location: Northern 'burbs of Adelaide
- Location: Northern 'burbs of Adelaide
I hardly think this tactic would be required for zebra finches, they mate at the drop of a hat, and probably would have eggs/chicks in the nest before you could get the vet or some other qualified person to your place to "do his stuff." Even the other species mentioned seem to have a high success rate left to their own devices!
Another thing to think about is sometimes that birds/animals are wiser than we are, maybe there is an inbuilt reluctance to pair up with a particular bird due to some genetic fault we as mere humans cannot see?
Remember birds literally see the world differently to us so maybe a bird with a genetic fault has a different UV rating!
http://news.yale.edu/2011/06/22/birds-e ... ul-our-own
But seriously if you do want to try this, look for a budgie breeder, especially if the budgies you have in the USA look like the huge overgrown specimens they have in the UK and are also seen in increasing numbers here.
Ive actually met someone who is in great demand in the budgie artificial insemination circle, this however is a damming indictment on those breeding the birds that his services are required because quite a lot of the stud birds are physically unable to copulate due the gross changes in body and feather structure. But that is another topic.
Another thing to think about is sometimes that birds/animals are wiser than we are, maybe there is an inbuilt reluctance to pair up with a particular bird due to some genetic fault we as mere humans cannot see?
Remember birds literally see the world differently to us so maybe a bird with a genetic fault has a different UV rating!
http://news.yale.edu/2011/06/22/birds-e ... ul-our-own
But seriously if you do want to try this, look for a budgie breeder, especially if the budgies you have in the USA look like the huge overgrown specimens they have in the UK and are also seen in increasing numbers here.
Ive actually met someone who is in great demand in the budgie artificial insemination circle, this however is a damming indictment on those breeding the birds that his services are required because quite a lot of the stud birds are physically unable to copulate due the gross changes in body and feather structure. But that is another topic.
Diane
The difference between Genius and Stupidity is, Genius has it’s limits
The difference between Genius and Stupidity is, Genius has it’s limits
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TailFeathers
Hello mates...
If I say mate one more time.... I'm going to have to move to Australia and become one of you guys.
Anyway....
Let me address a couple of things.. Am I fair dinkum? No. I'm very serious. Let me explain.
While some birds don't mate due to age or what not, sometimes it's also distance. Imagine if I could buy the sperm of a stud canary in Australia froma great bloodline, instead of an entire bird. This helps with one thing.
Another thing, sometimes canaries are attached to one mate. They can become so attached that they even wil cease to do the wild thing when they have the ability to do so.
One more thing... Mules and hybrids. These birds require special care to hybridize and it's not always easy. However artificial insemenation gives human intervention a profound ability to be able to control genetics and bird quality.
I don't see anything w one with it. I'm against using it for mass production, but in instance where it's needed, I'll use it.
If I say mate one more time.... I'm going to have to move to Australia and become one of you guys.
Anyway....
Let me address a couple of things.. Am I fair dinkum? No. I'm very serious. Let me explain.
While some birds don't mate due to age or what not, sometimes it's also distance. Imagine if I could buy the sperm of a stud canary in Australia froma great bloodline, instead of an entire bird. This helps with one thing.
Another thing, sometimes canaries are attached to one mate. They can become so attached that they even wil cease to do the wild thing when they have the ability to do so.
One more thing... Mules and hybrids. These birds require special care to hybridize and it's not always easy. However artificial insemenation gives human intervention a profound ability to be able to control genetics and bird quality.
I don't see anything w one with it. I'm against using it for mass production, but in instance where it's needed, I'll use it.
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finchbreeder
- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- Posts: 11641
- Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:00
- Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
- Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast
The Macaws where the numbers are under the 2000 considered to be the red flag number for survival of the species. Is an example of where this is necessary. Ditto a few other creatures that are also in such low numbers. 10 in this Zoo, 20 in the other nature reserve on the other side of the world. Well yess much easier for a vet with the necessary to do the job than to transport the critters back and forth. But with creatures where the only purpose is to use the sperm of a "highly desirable" stud critter? I know it is done with horses, cattle, dogs, cats, budgies. But really where is the challenge in that?? Perasonally I wonder if it is just a way of saying I have money not a driving ability to achieve through effort. No offence intended, just my oppinion.
LML
LML
LML
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TailFeathers
You do know that I'm communicating from the U.S.? Let me give another example of challenges met by traditional breeding.finchbreeder wrote:The Macaws where the numbers are under the 2000 considered to be the red flag number for survival of the species. Is an example of where this is necessary. Ditto a few other creatures that are also in such low numbers. 10 in this Zoo, 20 in the other nature reserve on the other side of the world. Well yess much easier for a vet with the necessary to do the job than to transport the critters back and forth. But with creatures where the only purpose is to use the sperm of a "highly desirable" stud critter? I know it is done with horses, cattle, dogs, cats, budgies. But really where is the challenge in that?? Perasonally I wonder if it is just a way of saying I have money not a driving ability to achieve through effort. No offence intended, just my oppinion.
LML
I'm desperately trying to buy a Japanese hoso. In the event I find one, which would be outside the U.S. as their are virtually none here.... I would have to pay loads of money for all these papers verifying health of the bird etc. then customs from the exporting nation and then customs for importing. Then I have to wait for my bird to be release from a 30 day quarantine, if it survives. Then I'd have to drive over 10hrs to my nearest quarantine center which lay on the eastern coast, while I love midland.
Then I have to find a hotel or place that will accept me and my bird and wait a day until I could drive back.
Let's use another example.
A certain breeder has a bird which is his stud. He doesn't want to sell it, bc he breeds it himself and he takes it to shows..he can also benefit by selling the male sperm so that he doesn't lose his birds while someone like me can gain tremendously.
I'm sure you can see the pros to AI under certain circumstances.
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BOF33
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- Posts: 219
- Joined: 08 Dec 2011, 23:30
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Exactly!But really where is the challenge in that??
A certain breeder with such a stud bird will certainly demand top dollar for the birds DNA!A certain breeder has a bird which is his stud. He doesn't want to sell it, bc he breeds it himself and he takes it to shows..he can also benefit by selling the male sperm so that he doesn't lose his birds while someone like me can gain tremendously.
$1000 for my stud birds sperm I say!
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TailFeathers
Hahaha
It's good for business to! Yeah?
I think that would be the case with top breeders demanding top dollar for their DNA. This could be great for breeders all around the world.
It's good for business to! Yeah?
I think that would be the case with top breeders demanding top dollar for their DNA. This could be great for breeders all around the world.
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BluJay
Good lawd, wouldn't it be better to buy one of the "top breeders" birds?
Tailfeathers, I know a "top breeder", of coturnix that played with artificial insemination. She used a pipettes to collect and inseminate them. She developed the red coturnix, red tuxedo, tuxedo coturnix Beautiful birds. To do this with finches.... Good grief that would be a job. Knowing what is involved in shipping canine seman counter to counter, is a task at time. I know because I shipped my dogs seman all over the states, 600.00 for the seman, plus traveling expenses and FedEx express delivery. It is very calculated, as the bitch has to be at the counter (vet) on receiving end.
I wonder if bird seman would have to be centrifuged, and put in stabilising solution for shipment?
I wonder if there are good books on bird showing? Like there are in dogs? The joy of breeding your own show dog, Ann Seranne, is my bible when it comes to breeding dogs. Are there books on the politics of birds shows? I would assume there is a fine line between "show quality" and "Pet Quality" in birds as with dogs. If so, wouldn't it be better to have birds from the bloodline you want, and bring them up on both sides of pedigree, so to speak?
I'm sure there is a lot of "ring side" BS in bird shows as in dog shows. Just don't think it would make good economic sense to do this with finches. Wouldn't it be to stressful?
PS: Happy Thanksgiving.
Tailfeathers, I know a "top breeder", of coturnix that played with artificial insemination. She used a pipettes to collect and inseminate them. She developed the red coturnix, red tuxedo, tuxedo coturnix Beautiful birds. To do this with finches.... Good grief that would be a job. Knowing what is involved in shipping canine seman counter to counter, is a task at time. I know because I shipped my dogs seman all over the states, 600.00 for the seman, plus traveling expenses and FedEx express delivery. It is very calculated, as the bitch has to be at the counter (vet) on receiving end.
I wonder if bird seman would have to be centrifuged, and put in stabilising solution for shipment?
I wonder if there are good books on bird showing? Like there are in dogs? The joy of breeding your own show dog, Ann Seranne, is my bible when it comes to breeding dogs. Are there books on the politics of birds shows? I would assume there is a fine line between "show quality" and "Pet Quality" in birds as with dogs. If so, wouldn't it be better to have birds from the bloodline you want, and bring them up on both sides of pedigree, so to speak?
I'm sure there is a lot of "ring side" BS in bird shows as in dog shows. Just don't think it would make good economic sense to do this with finches. Wouldn't it be to stressful?
PS: Happy Thanksgiving.
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finchbreeder
- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- Posts: 11641
- Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:00
- Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
- Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast
You do know that I'm communicating from the U.S.?
As Aussies know that you can't import/export finches, canaries etc. into this country that was obvious. That and the request for birds that don't exist in Australia.
LML
As Aussies know that you can't import/export finches, canaries etc. into this country that was obvious. That and the request for birds that don't exist in Australia.
LML
LML