Virkon-S + vitamins in drinking water - can be mixed or not?

07 Jan 2013, 21:53

Wha'? Heh? How would that prevent hijacking?!

FYI, I Googled very extensively prior!

If anyone has any light to shed on the actual question that would still be really good. Ta.

07 Jan 2013, 21:59

Oh, Matty has piped in, good (sort of). Strange timing on these posts. Anyway...

I too have always found it intuitively suspect that finches may have sterile guts. It seems so unlikely to me. And yet I am not a vet with the gear, the lab access and the stomach to test this.

One thing in particular makes me question it - the fact that poop turns green and fungal after over administration of (eg) Doxycycline, which strongly implies the loss of competitive organisms, no? Hence my use of probiotics, as I said, to hedge my bets between the opinions of different bird vets.

07 Jan 2013, 22:06

Just googled the material safety data sheet for Virkon S. Certainly not something to be ingested. "Corrosive, causes skin burn, irreversable eye damage, harmful if swallowed, absorbed through skin or inhaled. Do not get into eyes, on skin or clothing." Drink anyone?

07 Jan 2013, 22:11

Tiaris wrote:Just googled the material safety data sheet for Virkon S. Certainly not something to be ingested. "Corrosive, causes skin burn, irreversable eye damage, harmful if swallowed, absorbed through skin or inhaled. Do not get into eyes, on skin or clothing." Drink anyone?

Yeah give one to finchy with a cocktail of vitamins in it so he can try it out before the birds do

07 Jan 2013, 22:14

Regarding irradiation of food, I am against that because there is extensive evidence of likely, and in some circumstances substantial, harm. Lots of studies. Again though, I hedge; I do feed some of this, to be practical.

As I said, I have all of the same reservations that Tiaris has (doesn't anybody read posts properly any more?!!) - it's just that so far I have evidence of benefit from people who really, out of all of us, should know what they are doing, and no evidence of harm. Doesn't mean there isn't any evidecne of harm; I just haven't found or been given any yet. But I have found reports from MF and like this from a pigeon racing loft:

"Not only is it the most amazing disinfectant you will ever use in the lofts for sanitation but it is simply magic when used in the pigeons drinking water.

Virkon S should be the first line of defense for any young bird sickness. If the pigeons start to go off whether it is a young bird sickness or possible other affliction add 1/2 to 3/4 teaspoon to the gallon of water for five days. Usually within two days all symptoms have disappeared. By day five the birds look spectacular. ...

As a general health aid give the pigeons three days of Virkon S every six to eight weeks. Virkon S seems to have a positive effect against all bacteria, virus, fungi and canker. We use it during breeding, molting and racing will no ill effects.

Chicken breeders have been giving Virkon S to chicks for years. The chicks live better, grow better and losses are lessened."

That's why I am willing consider it, even though my first instinct was, for a long time, rejection of the idea.

07 Jan 2013, 22:21

crocnshas wrote: Yeah give one to finchy with a cocktail of vitamins in it so he can try it out before the birds do

Craig, NOT NICE. Not necessary.

That's why I bleepin' ASKED. Read the title of this thread! What does it say?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tiaris, thanks for that. But also read some other MSDSs for commonly used chemicals, nutrients, almost anything - they all sound like that!

Note that they describe the undiluted form of a substance, so it can sound pretty dire. e.g. Try citric acid or chlorhexidine gluconate (= other water sterilisers for birds).

07 Jan 2013, 22:51

It was my understanding that bleach breaks down in time to salt (?)

Is it possible that this Virkon s breaks down after a time into something less dire?

Most substances have a use by date. Many medicines can change properties quite substantially after a given time. Maybe this happens to Virkon s?

Also, msds's are written by the manufacturers.and would word things to cover their sueable backsides, I imagine.

07 Jan 2013, 23:12

Uraeginthus wrote:It was my understanding that bleach breaks down in time to salt (?)

Is it possible that this Virkon s breaks down after a time into something less dire?

Most substances have a use by date. Many medicines can change properties quite substantially after a given time. Maybe this happens to Virkon s?

Yes, bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite. Whatever Chlorine (which by itself is a really nasty irritant and oxidant) has not dissipated into the air hangs around as sodium chloride (salt) - apparently.

I'm not sure about how the main ingredient in Virkon-S behaves. That's a very good question. The main ingredient, for lurking chemists, is potassium peroxymonosulfate. It, like chlorine and other disinfectants, is a potent oxidant, yet it seems to last much longer in solution. The formula also contains Amaranth as a colour indicator - this fades to show when the either the biological load is too much for effective disinfection and/or the active principal has dissipated/changed. I don't know which. It would be good to know more.

07 Jan 2013, 23:34

This is an interesting article http://www.therebreathersite.nl/04_Link ... ectant.pdf

Perhaps not directly related to ingestion.

Cheers
Brett

08 Jan 2013, 06:24

If you think Virkon S can be harmful then consider this stuff we all use and ingest daily - http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html