Re: javan munias

[Lonchura]

I have been trying to get Javan Munias going for several years to increase the numbers however there seems to be so few birds around that I fear all the remaining birds may be related. If this is true then colour mutations may start to appear. Not a good thing with so few wild type/colours around. I am always on the lookout for new blood as we have some Javan Munias in south-east Queensland but, at this point I am not ready to sell. Please stay in touch as we may be able to do a swap.

[toothlessjaws]

will do lonchura.

i saw some for sale at the melbourne birdsale and um'd and ah'd about it for some time before keeping my promise to myself to leave with only what i went there to get. despite some of the other members at the sale raising suspicions that the birds were not pure, part of me has regretted it nonetheless. i am a sucker for tiny finches, as these guys were small. in fact, from what i have read they seem to be the smallest lonchura members available... is this correct?

anyhow, i will keep the lookout.

[Tiaris]

Rufous-backed are a touch smaller but they're both among the smaller few in the genus.

[Aussie_Bengo]

Hi,


Most of the Javan Munias that I have seen have not been pure even to the point that some have blotchy black underbelly markings like a Spice Finch but i figure this is either from Mutation because of in line breeding over time or from crossing with bengalese because of low numbers

I don't have the space at the moment, but I am very interested in keeping in touch with anyone keeping Javan Munias for my future collection once I move into a house with a yard.

Good luck!!

[Lonchura]

Aussie_Bengo,
There are a lot of suspect Javan Munias out there in aviaries. However, while visiting Bali and Singapore, I noticed it was quite common for young Javan Munias to have some darker markings within the white area in their first year of adult colour like the two photos below.

Kuta Beach, Bali, Indonesia, 2005 [First year moult] - Copy (640x512).jpg

This observation is also supported by European and USA breeders.
Admin removed photo copyright issue.
However, this should disappear when they have finished their moult at the end of the first year and the white area should be all one colour. Like the photo below.

javaanse-munia-javan-munia-01a.jpg

It is hard to know when purchasing young birds from a bird sale as their second moult often reveals their true make-up. In earlier searches and purchases I have been unhappy when what I was told was a true wild type Javan Munia, didn't lose the darker markings you speak of after its second moult. These days I prefer to see the parents before I make a purchase. Or better still check the mouth markings of the very young chicks.

Many finch breeders who claim to have White-bellied Munia Lonchura leucogastra (Photo Below)

index.jpg

are incorrectly naming them and in fact often have very good examples of Javan Munias Lonchura Leucogastroides. Easily confused scientific names but… visually very different finches. Nonetheless, if you see white-bellied Mannikin/Munia advertised for sale its worth a look as some good Javan Munias have been sourced this way. Look for birds very similar to the photo below. BUT... Always check the rump as they may be White-rumped munia See the photo two below.

Bali.JPG

The Indian (nominate) form of the White-rumped Munia looks like a Javan Munia but has the white rump tucked up between the wings and these finches have been recorded in Australian aviculture.

Lonchura_striata_Mangalore, Karnataka (India).jpg

[Aussie_Bengo]

Thanks for the good feedback Lonchura.

Many finch breeders who claim to have White-bellied Munia Lonchura leucogastra are incorrectly naming them and in fact often have very good examples of Javan Munias Lonchura Leucogastroides. Easily confused scientific names but… visually very different finches. Nonetheless, if you see white-bellied Mannikin/Munia advertised for sale its worth a look as some of my good Javan Munias have been sourced this way.

I too have also heard people refer to White Bellied Munias and have assumed that they were referring to the Javan Munia. I have never seen any Australian pictures or official references made about the White Bellied Munia Lonchura leucogastra in Australia. Did we ever actually have them introduced into Australia? My knowledge does not reach to this.

\
There are a lot of suspect Javan Munias out there in aviaries however, while visiting Bali and Singapore I noticed it was quite common for young Javan Munias to have some darker markings within the white area in their first year of adult colour. This observation is also supported by European and USA breeders. However, this should disappear when they have finished their moult at the end of the first year and the white area should be all one colour. It is hard to know when purchasing young birds from a bird sale as their second moult often reveals their true make-up. In earlier searches and purchases I have been unhappy when what I was told was a true wild type Javan Munia didn't lose the darker markings you speak of after its second moult. These days I prefer to see the parents before I make a purchase.

I have read similar things (in the book Munias and Mannikins by Robin Restall) regarding the juvenile markings of the Javan Munias.

I will show you the markings that I have mentioned in the previous post.

These photos were taken at Kellyville Pets NSW

Javan Munia Mutation 4.e.jpg

Javan Munia Mutation.e.jpg

I have seen examples of this in Javan Munias at two other places also.

I thought that since there was not any Bengalese chest scolloping on these Finches, then it was possible that the black underbelly markings are a mutation of sorts because of the small gene pool of these birds. Another note to support this is that these birds are quite tiny and so it would seem that there has been no outcrossing to the larger Bengalese.

At the time I purchased one of these Munias that had a significantly black marked underbelly. I have since moved him on due to lack of space.

Here are some pics

Javan Munia Mutation 3.e.jpg

Javan Munia Mutation 2.e.jpg

These may just be hybrids to some degree it is hard to know, I'm just throwing ideas around.


Cheers

[Lonchura]

Aussie_Bengo

I too have also heard people refer to White Bellied Munias and have assumed that they were referring to the Javan Munia. I have never seen any Australian pictures or official references made about the White Bellied Munia Lonchura leucogastra in Australia. Did we ever actually have them introduced into Australia? My knowledge does not reach to this.

The Dutch call them Javanese White-bellied Munia and I believe some other European breeders also call them by this name.
Unfortunately I can't comment on the existence of White-bellied Munia Lonchura leucogastra in Australia (perhaps some of the older finch keepers could help us here). There seems to be very little consistency with naming finches through out Australia and some finches seem to have a variety of names used across the country for the same bird. That's why I encourage people to also use the scientific name (not to show off, but to clarify the exact bird).

I thought that since there was not any Bengalese chest scolloping on these Finches, then it was possible that the black underbelly markings are a mutation of sorts because of the small gene pool of these birds. Another note to support this is that these birds are quite tiny and so it would seem that there has been no outcrossing to the larger Bengalese.

The finches in the photos you supplied taken at Kellyville Pets do seem to carry the basic Javan Munia appearance and your reasoning could be correct. However I can't really comment from the photos.

I purchased one of these Munias that had a significantly black marked underbelly. I have since moved him on due to lack of space.

The finch you mention above may be a hybrid or a mutation or it may just be melanism... It looks to be a melanistic form. I have seen Melanism in Gouldians, Chestnut-breasted and Zebra finches. It is a shame you moved it on as you could have had some fun.
Below is a photo of a melanistic Chestnut-breast

Fore some interesting photos of finches such as a melanistic Nutmeg/Spice Finch or Scaly-breasted Munia- Lonchura punctulata visit http://www.efinch.com/species/spice.htm

[Danny]

Most melanistic finches moult out to normal when fed well and placed in bright sunny aviaries

[E Orix]

Danny
Are you sure that very old birds that are turning Melanistic can be cured with Sunlight and good diet.
Melanistic problems are reasonably common in the female Weaver/Whydah family in particular the females when they age.

[Aussie_Bengo]

I purchased one of these Munias that had a significantly black marked underbelly. I have since moved him on due to lack of space.

The finch you mention above may be a hybrid or a mutation or it may just be melanism... It looks to be a melanistic form. I have seen Melanism in Gouldians, Chestnut-breasted and Zebra finches. It is a shame you moved it on as you could have had some fun.

The fun part is why I picked him up. He is currently in an outdoor aviary at a bird dealer here in Sydney and hopefully he is inconspicuous enough to still be there in a year or so when I have some more space. I had to decide to put the priority with the Bengos for now but developing a black or "Dusky" Javan Munia mutation is on my list of fanciful ideas, the other mottled Javan's would be handy also to achieve this I think.


Although as Danny has mentioned, I didn't own this guy for long enough to determine if he was melanistic or not, I think you have to wait for their annual moult to find that out.

The Indian (nominate) form of the White-rumped Munia looks like a Javan Munia but has the white rump tucked up between the wings and these finches have been recorded in Australian aviculture.

Lonchura_striata_Mangalore, Karnataka (India).jpg

Well that is exciting news!
I had not realised the White Rumped Munia or Striated Finch Lonchura striata striata had been introduced. These are the one member of the striata family that do look different to the Bengalese. Very interesting, I wonder if there are any around still.


Thank you greatly for all the excellent feedback.

Cheers