What are YOUR thoughts????

[Trilobite]

Hi all,
I am going to outline a hypothecical situation and would value your thoughts/opinions.

Breeder X has been breeding species Y for a few years now with no real health issues (appart from a broken leg = humanly put down).
Buyer Z wants some birds and purchases them after they have moulted into thier adult plumage and are purchased while at lcoal finch club sale weekend.
Birds are not quarantined before being released into new aviary on same day of purchase.
Two weeks later buyer Z complains to breeder X that the male died two weeks later after it spent a few days ill in the avairy - buyer Z states they have never had this happen before and suggested it may have come from breeder X's avairies. The illness was described as being listless, fluffed up and one eye squinting/closed for a few days and then it died.
No intervention was taken with sick male, female is OK from all reports. Avairy densities are above 1 pair per cubic meter in Buyer Z's avairies.

What would you do/say???

[Buzzard-1]

Not breeder X's fault in any way, Buyer Z took no precautions to alleviate stress and to me it sounds like Coccidiosis brought on by the stress of the new environment and the move, being a male could have been harassed by the dominant cock bird in the new aviary, No quarantine, no precautionary medication, no intervention when Illness was noticed, NO IDEA.

[vettepilot_6]

Sounds like stress from being moved...Longtails, Diamonds, Masks I have found to be highly susceptible to this...I always use spark or gloucose in water when transporting...what would I do if I was buyer, suck it up....if I was seller, hmm might do a discount on next purchase, hard to say there is too many variables..

[matcho]

Tribolite,
I love hypotheticals. So what are you? X orZ? What is species Y? Or is the question a REAL hypothetical? A bit more background/details would be helpful otherwise it is like doing a cryptic crossword. They are not fun.

[desertbirds]

Its not really hypothetical . Its obvious. If the birds were purchased unwell or arrived from interstate unwell then the breeder is at fault (generally). After a few weeks the seller can hardly be responsible given the circumstances.

[TomDeGraaff]

Two weeks is an eternity in the life of a finch. I agree with the previous opinions. Can't be the responsibility of the breeder, I feel.

[Trilobite]

Matcho, I am neither x or y, it is however based on a similar situatiion I overheard in conversation so dont know all the details either - sorry - I was just curious to see people perspectives as breeders, buyers and sellers. And yeah I hate cryptic crosswords too.

Desertbirds, I agree having recently bought some birds interstate from very reputable breeders, they arrived in tip top condition and very healthy. If they die 2- 3 weeks latter can I really blame the breeder - I think not - unless it is of course a congenital illiness knowingly passed on by bad breeding but even that is a long bow to draw.

[Craig52]

It can't be the breeders fault,the purchaser would,'t have bought the birds if they looked sick and i very much doubt if the seller would sell sick birds at a sale for the fear of getting a bad name.
It also depends on what time he put them in the aviary when he got home,i would say pretty late in the afternoon when they got home from a sale,so these birds would be so stressed out looking for seed/water and some where to roost and also being harassed by the other occupants in the aviary.
IMO,the person needs to be told what they did wrong and except the consequences and if you still feel guilty for some reason,give them a discount on another purchase and all the information regarding quarantining. THERE"S NOW GUARRANTEE WITH LIVESTOCK anything can happen to them after they leave your hands,especially after two weeks. Craig

[BrettB]

I agree, the buyer in this instance doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Lets make it more interesting.
Say the buyer takes the bird home and places it in a warm, dry, clean quarantine cage in a low stress environment, provides clean water (with Spark in if you like) and appropriate food. The bird gets sick and dies after two weeks.
Where do we stand then on the apportioning of blame

I love cryptic crosswords.

Cheers
Brett

[mattymeischke]

I love cryptic crosswords.

Me too.

In the revised hypothetical, it is still not the sellers fault IMHO.
It is the buyer who should inspect the bird before buying, though this doesn't always happen, and the seller cannot be expected to detect an illness which is not apparent on careful, in hand inspection.
In the case of buying interstate, it is usually impossible to inspect before buying so we must rely on the person we are dealing with. It might be reasonable to complain if they arrived obviously unwell, but I wouldn't: once the animals change hands, so does the risk.