Phalaris vs Canary Seed

[rpetersen]

To all forum members, is there a difference between the phalaris seed and the canary seed. If they are what are the nutritional values etc fat,carbohidrates, protein

[Craig52]

To all forum members, is there a difference between the phalaris seed and the canary seed. If they are what are the nutritional values etc fat,carbohidrates, protein

From memory,canary seed is from the phalaris family and what we call phalaris is a miniture variety of canary seed.The seed cleaner i used to get it from called it, canary grass seed or serousas,or something like that.
Weight for weight,there is fifty % more single seeds in phalaris than canary seed,and i find small finches prefer the smaller phalaris seed.
I don't think the nutritional value is much different,just that small finches prefer the smaller seeds.
Many years ago,i had great success with green stawberrys as the only seed they would eat was phalaris and the small weed seeds mixed in with it. Craig

[mattymeischke]

They are different varieties of the same species: Phalaris canariensis, aka canary grass.
It is much used in Australia (and also in South Africa and Argentina?) as a pasture improvement grass, as well as being canary seed.

The smaller-seeded varieties (including Sirosa, which was developed by CSIRO if my memory serves me correctly) are bred for nutritional value as fodder for grazing animals.
They have done so well that they have naturalised in most of South-eastern Australia
The larger-seeded varieties are grown for seed eaters; they are mostly grown in Canada, though some is grown in Australia.

If you pick it from the paddocks, you are getting the smaller-seeded varieties; the seed head is long and cigar-shaped.
If you grow it in the garden from bird seed, you get shorter, fatter, rounder heads with much larger seeds but less of them.

[Craig52]

If you pick it from the paddocks, you are getting the smaller-seeded varieties; the seed head is long and cigar-shaped.
If you grow it in the garden from bird seed, you get shorter, fatter, rounder heads with much larger seeds but less of them.[/quote]

Not so Matty,Phalaris seed is the same shape as canary seed but half the size.The one grown for fodder is sirosa and is brown in colour and the same size as phalaris and another name it is called is phalaris minor.The one that grows between roads and farm fences is phalaris,same colour and half the size of canary seed.
The seed Gouldian paul is selling is sirosa,but there is some yellow phalaris amongst it.
Anyhow,there nutrition value is pretty much the same and my birds go crazy on it. Craig

[mattymeischke]

Craig, I have checked the books and I was wrong.

The Phalaris minor and P. canariensis are different species, but to make it a bit more confusing, the 'Sirosa' is apparently a variety of P. aquatica ( see http://www.seedmark.com.au/products?dat ... 217072CC04 for example).

I also expressed myself badly; I was trying to say one has big heads with small seeds in them, the other has smaller heads with big seeds in them. This is based on what I pick and grow myself, so I'm pretty sure about them, but as to which species they are, I am now confused.

Grass classification is hard; as an example,this is from a proper scientific description of P. minor:

"Leaves with sheath mostly close around the culms or the lower becoming loose, smooth, the uppermost inflated;
ligule membranous, 8–10 mm long; blade flat, 4–13 mm wide, flaccid, glabrous, smooth to scaberulous.

Panicle spike-like, ovate or oblong to cylindrical, 1–9 cm long, dense. Spikelets imbricate, strongly laterally compressed,
4–6.5 mm long. Glumes persistent, acute, subequal, as long as the spikelet, winged on the keels in the upper part, the
wings often erose. One sterile floret very narrow and subulate, acuminate, the other reduced to a minute scale or
occasionally absent. Fertile lemma 2.7–4 mm long, indistinctly 5-nerved, hairy; palea hairy on the keel, smooth on the
sides."

I can hardly tell a lemma from a glume on a good day! I can take some photos if anyone is really that interested, but I think that is unlikely....

[Craig52]

Thanks for that Matty,the main thing is that Phalaris of any type is probably one of the best small seed additives, in moderation,you can give finches. As i said,many years ago when i was breeding green strawberrys,phalaris and other small grass seeds were the only seeds they would eat and they left a hopper full of commercial finch mix untouched. Cheers Craig