Plastic water dispensers

[GregH]

With my first Aussie summer coming up since I returned to keeping birds here I wondered as I cleaned out the drinkers today how safe they are they. Previously I've used stainless steel, glass or other ceramic dishes as drinking reservoirs but feeling the blood-warm water in the drinkers today I considered all the reports of plasticisers acting as endocrine disruptors which seem to affect reproduction and development in vertebrates. The Government has banned Bisphenol-A (BPA) and di-[2-ethylhexyl]-phthalate (DEHP ) from use in baby-food containers - specifically because they have been shown to cause reproductive and developmental toxicity but there's noting to stop these substances from being used for animal production. Of course the warmer the temperature the more of these chemicals will dissolve out into the water the birds drink but is this actually affecting them. So far I've had only Gouldians and Ruddies breed but no luck from Zebras, Double-bars or Orange-breasted waxbills. Is this luck or is there a problem? I've read about breeders that swear providing rainwater is the secret of success but is it the water or what's in the water that correlates with success or failure? Does anyone else have some information/anecdotes as to what the long-term effects of plastic drinkers are on the successful maintenance of finches?

[Myzomela]

Hi Greg,

I don't think anyone has really looked into this but it is always a cause for concern,.
The obvious answer is that if people are concerned by the possible risks, then don't use plastic containers for providing water during warm weather.

As for rainwater vs tapwater, Brian O'Gorman published an article in Australian Aviculture in the 80's where his birds showed a clear preference for rainwater over town water, but the preference wasn't obvious when comparing soaked seed prepared in rainwater vs seed soaked in town water.

I doubt your problem is due to the water- it really should affect all species relatively equally, although I am concerned about you not being able to breed the zebs ...

Don't worry Greg, my track record hasn't been much better of late, but that's not the birds' fault either- more to do with their keeper!!

[casehulsebosch]

quote:"his birds showed a clear preference for rainwater over town water"

Not having a dig here but I am with the birds!

Town water in Australia is generally crap. I have been around the track enough now to form my opinion.
I would suggest to stick with rain water if and when available.

cheers, Case.

[iaos]

Crap is an acquired taste Case. If you spend long enough in a town you will generally get used to the water.

[Brooksy]

Agree with the Ausie tap water taste. Although the water we get out of the tap here is brilliant compared to the crap that comes out of the taps in Germany, france, Italy,Switzerland, (can't comment on the others because I haven't tried them)

[TomDeGraaff]

I may be biased, but I have no problem with Melbourne's water wherever I have lived. I suppose it depends on the geology around the water catchments. All things being equal, I'll also give top marks to (unpolluted) rainwater.

[Trilobite]

Greg a very valid point about cheap Chinese made plastic drinking containers. I have not noticed any real preference for rainwater vs town nor have the population of birds to make a statistically valid assessment. Agree with Myzo that any effects should be seen equally among all your birds to a certain degree noting previous comment.

Your comment however prompted me to think a bit further on this one - an issue that may complicate or accentuate the issues is the acidification of the water as well as it getting hot.

WRT rainwater has anyone though about a) fallout from the area (dust, pesticides, exhaust/combustion products/by products etc), b) chemicals from the roof (tiles vs tin), c) chemicals (including those you mention) from the tank (concrete, gal, zincalume, plastic lined colour bond, poly plastic) and finally d) chemical from your poly pipes, fittings, pump components and filter housings. For example most plumbers tape and pump seals have PFOA (Perfluorooctanoic acid) and PFOS (Perfluorooctanesulfonic acid) both of which are now regarded in Australia and OS as an "emerging contaminate". These chemicals have been detected in other household goodies like stain resistant items, cleaning liquids, microwave popcorn bags, some cookware containing Teflon. From Wiki - PFOA/PFOS are known carcinogens, liver toxicants, an developmental toxicant, an immune system toxicant, and also exerts hormonal effects including alteration of thyroid hormone levels. Animal studies show developmental toxicity from reduced birth size, physical developmental delays, endocrine disruption, and neonatal mortality. PFOA causes liver cancer in rodents and also induces testicular and pancreatic cancer and cell tumors.

so maybe the good old days of glass jars and ceramic dishes should be returned to aviculture. Food for thought!!

[Finchy]

I've often thought on this too. Yes, they are probably being affected to some degree, so if you can change to glass then I would do so. I don't know that they would be so profoundly affected as to stop Zebra Finches from breeding though! After a nuclear holocaust there'll be only two species left - those little German cockroaches and Zebra Finches.

You might like to look at other things too, like:
- completeness of nutrition/supplementation
- Cochlosoma or other parasites

If it's Cochlosoma I would expect the Gouldians to be affected as well, but in NSW in the past few years some Zebra breeders said their results were abysmal and they eventually worked out it was due to Cochlosoma, so it's worth considering.

[finchbreeder]

OK so now I am going to go to the non plastic dishes for water over summer. And Zebs are like other birds they cycle in and out of fertility. So wait and it will happen that they get into alignment and go for it.
LML

[GregH]

I think I will move away from these plastic water dispensers as every little helps. As for the Zebs they were freebies via QFS and so may have been geriatric when I got them but again I've got no proof however competition was strong and they were out numbered by Gouldians at one stage by 5:1! If I had access to a microscope I could look for Cochlosoma but in the absence of one is it worth while treating everything with a prophylactic dose of metronidazole or ronidazole?