Gouldian selection

[dww]

Hi, I'm looking at getting a pair of Gouldians & am hoping for some clarification on the genetic makeup of what I'm after. When I last had Gouldians many years back, just as nice pets which bred occasionally, there was pretty much only the three normal types. Doing some research on here & other sources I realise there will be more involved in bird selection than just the preferred head colour. What I'm after is Normal Red Head, Purple Breasted birds that will produce 100% Normal Red Head, Purple Breasted offspring.
From what I gather I will need a cock bird that is 'Double Factor Red Head' & a hen that is 'Red Head'. I still have a long ways to go to get my head around the genetic side of things with all the 'split for this & that' that I'm seeing but if I can find a good reputable breeder in my area & I know what to ask for hopefully I'll be set to get a good grounding of quality stock & look into some of the nice mutations down the track.
Any advice on what to actually ask for when selecting the birds would be greatly appreciated, I want to start out on the right foot.
Thanks

[Craig52]

Hi, I'm looking at getting a pair of Gouldians & am hoping for some clarification on the genetic makeup of what I'm after. When I last had Gouldians many years back, just as nice pets which bred occasionally, there was pretty much only the three normal types. Doing some research on here & other sources I realise there will be more involved in bird selection than just the preferred head colour. What I'm after is Normal Red Head, Purple Breasted birds that will produce 100% Normal Red Head, Purple Breasted offspring.
From what I gather I will need a cock bird that is 'Double Factor Red Head' & a hen that is 'Red Head'. I still have a long ways to go to get my head around the genetic side of things with all the 'split for this & that' that I'm seeing but if I can find a good reputable breeder in my area & I know what to ask for hopefully I'll be set to get a good grounding of quality stock & look into some of the nice mutations down the track.
Any advice on what to actually ask for when selecting the birds would be greatly appreciated, I want to start out on the right foot.
Thanks

Hi dww,i think you will have a hard time finding what you wont unless there is someone around Brissy doing the specialised head colours thing.Though usually red to red will only throw red but can sometimes throw a black head.If i were you,go out and buy the best RH cock from someone and a really nice full masked RH hen from someone else,breed them for a generation and see what you get. Craig

[BrettB]

Hello DWW,

To be guarantied pure red head normals, you would really need to source them from a breeder that keeps a separate line bred strain of this type.
Preferably going back several generations with records that document there heritage.

As Craig suggested, that is a difficult assignment.
A compromise position would be to find someone who breeds a line of normal gouldians and then to get some red heads from them.
With time you should be able to establish a red head strain.
Totally removing all recessive genes (like black and yellow head) is a difficult task, but slightly easier with sex linked genes.
It could be done if you were dedicated to outcrossing to confirm the genotype, but I really don't see the point.

Cheers
Brett

[KENTUCKY]

Hi dww,
Genetics can be a daunting subject to the novice, what do you wish to do,just dabble, or do you wish to more serious,
if you just want the casual approach into genetics, follow Craigs advice, buy yourself three pairs of red heads or have a mixture of red and yellow heads and let them breed,( YHs are modified RHs) what needs to be done from then on, is to keep a written record of who bred what ,in other words, ring your youngsters and parents so you can trace and identify them when they come through the molt, those pairs that produce BH Hens,cull the Cockbirds as they are split for BH which you dont want to keep, remember that Hens are always Pure and breed true to Head colour.
There is an excellent array of articles on the Head Colour Inheritance of the Gouldian Finch at your disposal if choose follow it up.

[dww]

Thanks guys, you've been very helpful & it's greatly appreciated.
Reading up on the genetics is daunting but interesting, I think at this stage I'll just 'dabble'. Red Heads are my personal preference & it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world to produce different coloured offspring. Keeping records is something I intend to do & hopefully the birds I get will have some known history. I like the idea of getting birds from different places so that's an avenue I'll take & start from there. Now to find some breeders.
Thanks again
Denis

[finchbreeder]

A couple more posts and you will be able to access the Classifieds section and advertise in the Wanted section.
LML

[Tiaris]

Red-headed hens can be split to yellow-headed.
There are a few breeders around who have kept pure flocks of each head colour going for multiple generations.

[dww]

I'll do some more reading over the next week or so & make some calls to see what's out there. There was a sale in Brisbane recently that I only just found so that would have been good to go to. I'll keep my eyes out & check the classifieds on here when I can. Helpful people on here, thanks to you all.

[finchbreeder]

Red-headed hens can be split to yellow-headed.
Correct me if I am wrong. But shouldn't that be cocks? I understood that cocks have two head colour genes, the one that shows and another which may or may not be the same. And hens have a single head colour gene and it shows. A red head being the dominant colour can be pure red, split for black or split for orange/yellow. A black head can be pure black or split for orange/yellow. And an orange/yellow can be ?? Also orange/yellow head is a dilute of red that dilutes only the head colour.
LML

[POLAR GOULDIANS]

Hi Finchbreeder,
Both black and red headed hens and cocks can be split for yellow.
The yellow gene is recessive, therefore to breed a yellow headed bird from black or red headed birds then both parents must be split for yellow.
This works in much the the same way as the Blue or Aust Yellow gene.