I remember how everyone thought that 30 birds is too much for an aviary 3 x 3m, and after reading an article on overcrowding I am horrified about how I kept the birds back when I lived in Red Hill 2 years ago.
Reading that article, They said that the general rule of thumb is 10 ft2 for a pair. With my aviary seemingly getting smaller by the day , I can almost do that, 9ft2 per pair. Below is my main question, and some calculations, along with my wish list. BUT, I must stress that I PLAN TO LAVISH ALL LUXURIES I CAN ON THEM, AND TRY AND HELP PRESERVE THEM FOR FUTRE GENERATIONS. I DON'T just want them because they're pretty to look at (though they are anyway )
SO:
Will 2pr + hen of grenadier weavers, 2 pr of red-faced pytilias, 1-2 (rotational breeding) pr blue caps (RC cordons first though), and 1pr of cut throats go in an aviary 3m long x 2.5m wide x 2.9m high?
That would give each pair 9 square feet to move around in, plus space going up and down. all up, the cubic feet of this size aviaries equals: 607.5 ft3, giving each pair a 85.1 cubic foot privacy radius. of course, the other birds will make the radius overlap, but at least there would be enough room for them to get away without other birds
It's not a big aviary, but it's ALMOST square (apparently important for weavers), and with good management, I think I could get young out of the birds.
Oh, and I thought 2pr + hen weavers so the cocks have some competition, and I think that will get them fired up enough to breed, thinking the other will steal the 3 hens . seem like a good idea? or will I come out the next morning and find the hens have been plucked by 2 attentive males fighting over them?
NO!!!!!
There are several reasons
1 The so called expert who has or had stated that you can keep birds in an area directed by an area formula in my opinion didn't breed birds other than the totally domesticated few,Budgies,Canaries etc.
The more compatable species the more too an aviary.
Maybe they ment like species all Silverbills,or Longtails.
While I am not that interested in Parrot collections one area I must agree with, They may have a $30 pair of common parrots and give them an aviary to themselves,not the finch breeder,they will have a pair of rare/expensive finches,no aviary to themselves no fill it up with a heap of inexpensive birds to compete with the rare ones.I guess who are the smarter keepers.
2 Each specie you mentioned requires a very high protein intake to rear a full clutch so there would be major problems keeping enough livefood up to them all.
3 Areas would be set up by the stronger species,Weavers outside in the greenery,Cut throuts inside and the others trying to manage in the middle.
4 You would get bickering between the pairs of Auroras most likely as well.
5 If a specie is rare the owners are obligated to give the birds every chance and assistance to breed and breed full clutches, that means don't cram other birds into the same aviary to compete with the breeding birds.
6 Overcrowding is nearly as big of a problems as being over run with Mice.
I have stated before,I can only keep one Male Pintail Whydah in an aviary over 300 sq meters any more and the dominant male will kill the other, a dozen or so Grenadiers in another aviary 100 sq meters and then I have to watch closely for over dominant birds.
7 Many very rare species have been lost to us because of giving them too many goodies,Red Crested Cardinals suffered badly from being over weight as they were fed far too many goodies.They would have survived and bred far better on a balanced rough diet.
8 I would rather see you have a very small aviary on the side of your main one just for a pair of Blue Caps. You then know if you fed them 2 spoons full of Termites then they will get the lot to feed their chicks and not compete against a Cut Throat glutton sitting on the edge of the dish gorging itself.
Jayburd
This lead time before you get your next aviary is a very good time to sort out all what is said to you, take it in and compare it with others that contribute.
Remember breeding birds is not Rocket Science,it is mostly just common sense and application.
Keep delving and asking questions.
Old Chinese Proverb . . . "When you are aiming for the moon it is easy to trip over a twig"
Very sound advice e orix
Take it steadily Jay. if you are 12 y/o you have at least 50 or 60 good years of bird keeping ahead of you
Dont take too much notice of what you read in books (especially overseas publications) without getting a second or even a third opinion
This is a pretty good forum with a pretty good mix of enthusiasm and experience . . . definitely run your questions across the members
I suggest that you find an experienced bird keeper in your area and use him as a mentor . . help him with his birds when he goes away for the weekend etc
I can tell you from experience that a great way to flatten your enthusiasm is to sink a lifesavings into a pair of irreplaceable bird only to lose one or both through a mistake which you "should have known about"
If I could give you two pieces of advice, they would be . . . SPECIALISE . . and , . LEARN BY MISTAKES (of others preferably)
And now a question addressed to myself . . . "If you're so smart how come you aren't rich????"
clearly you don't subscribe to the Just Finches and Softbills magazine.
1. Finch breeders are not all like that. What I was suggesting wasn't, though I admit the need for livefood would be over riding. The only common birds in my suggested mix were cut throats.
2. That's true, but I was hoping variety would beat number. Obviously all of them would cluster round the white ant tray, but if I can also (which I can), provide mealworms and maggots, then maybe the numbers eaten would even out, just by a little, and spread the live food over all three sources, crating less of a drain.
3. That is also what I have found. I thought by separating the aviary into different areas all able to be accessed by any bird, using brush fencing, then I could spread them out, each having their own favourite spot. Dominance in these areas would belong to the general user, and though some areas would be dominated by one pair, there would be some areas also for escape and privacy.
4. Ok, that's new to me. Thanks.
5. I agree. Therefore, I tried to give each pair a good amount of room. Not everyone's setup is 300m2. I made a list of my favourite in - need - of - saving birds, (and though you may scoff at this, they are getting rarer), and narrowed it according to price, difficulty, and temprament. Blue caps are peaceful. Grenadiers are according to most sources, peaceful. Pytilias are peaceful except to melbas, auroras etc. Price wise, I made it the maximum I can afford. The Cut Throats I decided on because I was already getting them. Difficulty, I have only ever bred zebras and quails. So, your thinking, what chance does he have with these birds? better to leave them to the more experienced!
I thought that too. BUT, I have had either eggs/chicks/nests of many species, in fact all the species I've ever had apart from jacarinis, and orange breasts. These attempts failed bcause of A. for the first few, (I WAS 8!!), my poking fingers, which I never do anymore. B. infertility, the case with my parrot finches and longtails. (I never had enough money to swap birds, so it stayed that way), and C. weather. I've had a bad run with weather, gouldians, cordons, ruddies, longtails, etc. lost eggs/chicks/abandoned nests because of the cold snaps and hot periods in the last few years.
6 I think I know about being over run with mice, remember?
As "so -called finch breeders go", Marcus Pollard is pretty darn close to being one! He is, in my mind, one of the best. He states that he keeps 2 cocks in an aviary of grenadiers for stimulant. As do others!
7. I think you misunderstood "Luxury". I meant, luxury that is GOOD FOR THEM!! austerity diet, greens, and live food in breeding season, seeds, grass heads, growing plants of varying branch sizes, foraging oppertunities, open spaces, light room etc.
8. How big is "very small"? I do not have room for another aviary, only cages. And I would prefer not to see blue caps in cages year round!! I know the idea of the feeding, and agree. however, "that cutthroat glutton" cant be on 3 food tables at once, all with enough food for half the collection in each! I'm not going to waste food either. anything that is not eaten (apart from live food, which I'm fairly sure there won't be any left overs) get's sorted as to cleanliness, then frozen/stored for tomorrow. the worms or compost bin get any heavily pooped on stuff.
I plan to use this time for exactly what you've said, and also planning for 7 years time, when I can move out and expand, trying to get a job to pay the way for more, bigger aviaries in the future, and hoping like hell there will be some of the rare birds we have these days left still!
Jayburd
Hey I wasn't having a go at you,I envy your enthuisiasm.
The only way to learn is to ask.
As I said before listen to as many experienced people as you can then you will get a broader knowledge.
By the way I maybe fortunate to have a big aviary but it took alot of years to get there.
Listen to people but make sure you hear what is being said.
Jayburd
I forgot to ask.
I do subscribe to Just Finches and Softbills as all avis should but what did you mean in reference to the publication.
I am curious.
He is 12 and very keen , gotta love the enthusiasm ...Jay you are gonna be an awesome finch breeder sadly it all takes time just keep asking questions and question anything you read and hear , its all trial and error and one persons method may not be anothers .
Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue.
David Brent
Wouldn't any serious bird breeder have an article in the just softbills mag.Its a great mag, Jay its all baby steps my friend,the best thing to do is either specialize like Authur says for eg: if you really need to keep blue caps so be it, keep them as a lone pair,they will breed much better save what you can from the sale of the youngsters remembering to keep extra hens and possibly obtaining another unrelated cock bird , there you now have two pair , slowly building up your bloodline ,then after a season or two with all the extra cash you have saved from the sales you can go buy your weavers or what ever you wish after you have built your next aviary, its all good you wish to do your bit for saving the endangered birds in aviculture but don't buy just because you want to be a crusader We all have to start somewhere if you look at the Mc creas , The Kingstons, The Pollards and even the Holmes of this world of ours , their collections didn't happen over night , gee I have been around birds pretty much all my life and I seem to find something I didn't know everyday and I am pushing into the dark side of my 30'S.........Pete
I love your enthusiasm jayburd. Reminds me when I was around your age begging my parents for a big aviary.
I know you'd love to start with all your dream birds, but the reality is that in the size aviary you are talking about, it just isn't possible to get reasonable breeding results. The recommended space of 1 square metre per pair is a stretch for even the placid bread and butter birds such as ruddies, orange breasts etc. Once you start talking weavers you need to at least double that.
Feeding of live food would definately be a big problem with housing the species you mention. If you happen to be lucky enough to get some blue cap chicks in the nest, you cannot let the live food run out or they'll be on the floor. The amount of live food you are going to require to feed out just to make sure the blue caps get there share would amaze you.
If I were in your position, I would split the aviary into 3 smaller breeding aviaries 2.5m x 1m and put 2 pairs in each. This would give you the best possible breeding results for the space you have and allow you to have a couple of pairs of each species so you can make unrelated pairs.
I know the overwhelming feeling of the "I wants" but you really need to keep it in perspective and take baby steps. Start with your cordons etc for a season or two and then build your collection from the sales of your young. Believe me, there's no greater sense of satisfaction than to look at your collection and know that it started from the proceeds of just a couple of pairs of average birds.
, I can almost do that, 9ft2 per pair. Below is my main question, and some calculations, along with my wish list. BUT, I must stress that I PLAN TO LAVISH ALL LUXURIES I CAN ON THEM, AND TRY AND HELP PRESERVE THEM FOR FUTRE GENERATIONS. I DON'T just want them because they're pretty to look at (though they are anyway 
)
. seem like a good idea? or will I come out the next morning and find the hens have been plucked by 2 attentive males fighting over them?
