Breeding gouldians questions

[flap]

I am just wondering how others go about breeding Gouldians, in terms of pairing colourwise, as well as the issue of related birds. We currently have 6 gouldians. 2 M RH normals, unrelated to the others, consisting of 3 F, and 1 M. The females - 2 are BH, one PC one WC. The third, not sure about head colour but lookes like might be PC. Also a male, PC, not sure about head colour yet. These 4 may or may not be related, breeding the male with any of those females may not be a good idea. Therefore we would need an unrelated hen to pair him with.
First of all, do gouldians pair for life? Do they partner with any colour? if isolated as a pair, can they be "forced" to bond? and will they then stay together once released back into the aviary?


The way I see it, our options are:
1. Keep the 6 birds together (possibly adding one more, unrelated RH hen) and let them do whatever nature leads them to do. Sell any unpaired birds. Pros - don't need any more birds, surprise outcomes every time. Cons. Mix of colours. Potential inbreeding for at least one pair unless extra female added and pair separated until bonded.
2. Get a female for the yet uncoloured male (all other females could potentially be related to him), and let the other 5 birds work it out. So different heads/chest colours would lead to mutations. Then sell any unpaired birds. Pros as above, minus inbreeding problem.
3. Try and get birds to breed with same head/chest colour . This would mean sourcing another few birds and having to keep them in breeding cabinets. Pros -colours assured (barring throwbacks). Inbreeding prevented. Cons. Significant expenses, hassles and problems with room.

Do people worry about any of this, or am I overthinking it?

Thanks.

[spanna]

hi flab

in my opinion you should always try and breed RH to RH, BH to BH and YH to YH, same goes for chest colours and back colours. polluted genetics in gouldians occurs because people just throw them all in together and leave them be, and it becomes hard for you to sell pairs of the same colour types when they do reproduce. it is also often found that mixed head colours produce less young than otherwise. i've got a pair of RH normals but the male is split to BH, and from what little colour the young have at the moment i think i have 3 BH hens and 2 RH males (which may well be split to BH, impossible to tell without DNA or breeding them). this means i cant sell a single 'pair' of birds from their young this season. needless to say the male will be caught up and replaced after the molt is over.

inbreeding also results in lower numbers of young produced, and possible deformities in some, though this is rare. i would suggest doing all you can to ensure unrelated, pure colour birds are bred, both to maintain the genetic integrity of the species and to give yourself the best possible breeding opportunities, success and sales of any young.

spanna

[iaos]

There is a theory/science suggesting that mixing head colours leads to a higher ratio of males to females.

To sort out your possible inbreeding problem you could try and find someone to swap your male with.

[Matt]

Most people think that you should keep the like head colours together. I personally prefer to put my best cock bird with my best hen regardless of their head colour. Of course, I still purposely breed for the mutations I want, but I feel there is more emphasis on head colour than their needs to be. A lot of people will say it's hard to find pure red heads or black heads etc. but really if you're keen to get a perfectly pure red head purple breasted green back, with selective breeding over a couple of seasons it is fairly simple. The most important factor, is to advise any buyer of the genetic background of the bird. Some people take offence to being sold a pair of pure red heads and when they breed, produce all 3 head colours from the one clutch.

Never pair siblings together. You are far better off swapping a couple of birds. Father/Daughter or Mother/Son pairings aren't quite so bad, but I still wouldn't do that unless I felt it was necessary to get the best traits out of the parents.

Gouldians don't pair for life but if a mated pair from the previous season are put back into the same enclosure, they will more than likely pick the same mate again. It is not hard though to break the pair bond if necessary.

[finchbreeder]

From my observations, you will get more and healthyer chicks from un related pairs. But the head colour of the parents does not seem to have any effect on the fertility. The theory is more hens if the parents have the same head colour. Not sure how true this is but.
LML

[Diane]

Do people worry about any of this,

Yes I do,

or am I overthinking it?

and no you're not. At least not in my opinion.
I am very much into keeping good records, I use ikhoms site and also print pedigrees from his site and keep them in a folder. Anyone getting a gouldian from me will also get a pedigree so they will know as much about the birds history as I do with regard to colour inheritance.

[BENSONSAN]

I definatly prefer to breed same head color to one another but as for breeding white chest to white chest im not realy into it. Its like breeding a blue gouldian to a blue gouldian. Weak gene pool is all it leads to ....always better to breed a white chest to a split to white chest. Or a normal and then with the splits.

Not saying the young would all die but from what i rekon its gonna lead to stronger birds. Problem is people get greedy and want to breed white to white or blues to blues. Better off pairing out to normals and using your splits. Also the studies been done on the babies being weaker when head colors are crossed and its true.. But hey its fun nonetheless. I rekon if more people breed blue birds especialy to realy healthy normals and then breed of the splits we could all have some great strong blues going around. There a good example.

But hey thats only my thoughts and what i believe in, and it doesnt make me rite either. I got a yellow head wb cock at the moment with no partner and am seriously considering breeding him to a bh split to wb hen hehehehe so hey there you go.

Ben

[Pete Sara]

this is just my personal thought...... but i think you get a stronger bird from aviary bred birds....there will always be a need for breeding cabinets to help develop mutations but i think those that are bred in larger aviaries a fitter bird as they have room to fly and a fat bird doesn't breed well at all.....my suggestion would be to keep head colours the same if you have normals but sourceing the same at times in mutations can be a bit hard so you have no choice to mix.also if the you let the birds stay in an aviary most of the year and only place them in the cabinet during your allocated breeding season they and you will be better of.....just my opinion...pete

[BENSONSAN]

couldnt agree more poita

[finchbreeder]

Have to completely agree with Pete and Ben there.
LML